Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by Somian »

soundstorm wrote:Hi Phil!

You're right, I do forget this always: 800x600 will give Performance Boost over our BIG Monitors Resolution right now... 8)

I just recieved an answer to a mail from virtualrealites.com and the Dual Z800: It really exists:
http://www.vrealities.com/z800dualpro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But for $2195.00... :cry: But as it takes Dual Input, i guess no more problems with De-Sync.
it's only one eye per frame
What do you mean by that?

Yea a new cpu and gpu would be necessary also for me (dualcore@3.2, 8800gts@640MB) :mrgreen:
do you know, if there is an upgradekit or something that makes the standard z800 dual compatible?

i have a z800 with the old firmware, and i'd like to use it with my GTX280-PC. before i was using a 7950GX2 with it; but its far too slow these days.

is there a way to send the proper left-right signal to the z800 to prevent the side-flip?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by soundstorm »

Im sorry but i dont know. You could ask virtualrealities.com, they sell the z800 Dual Option as I mentioned. Maybe you can upgrade the standard model, although i doubt it. :oops: Or for a BIG price... :oops:

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by Okta »

The z800 might work with a 8800gtx ultra because you can trick it into ddc io glasses mode. It works for shutters so it should work.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by DavidGhast »

so the z800 wont work on 64bit?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yomer »

OK, just to get things straight. After the update to 6.38/6.40 firmware of the z800, using the iz3d marked shutter mode. If you can't maintain a 60+ FPS, there will be synchronization problems, right? Unless you have the dual input z800. I was this close to buy a z800 because I thought the sync problem was finally fixed... :cry:

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

I just bought a z800, someone used once for a demonstration. I have a 256 mb ati eax 1550 vid card, dual core amd athlon x2 3800, 4 gb ram.

I have been trying to set this thing up for 2 months to start my dissertation in august (the hmd's are being used for treating ptsd and other anxiety disorders).
I have the labtool, and the iz3d driver. The driver is set to s3d shutter marked.
WHen I run the test I get a flicker on both my main screen, and my goggles(main is hooked up to the z800). I have the latest firmware (6.38e).

I cannot get the test image to look 3d, and I have never seen the z800 indicator light go solid green as it should. I have tried to run it on half life 2:lost coast, and episode 1. No luck. MY FPS appear to be 25-30.

Suggestions. I am considering boosting my whol system (my power supply has a 12v of 16 amp) increasing the cpu to the 5400, and the gpu to an ati 512 mb or greater. But I would hate to do this if someone sees somethign I am missing.

John

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

You have to manualy activate the 3D mode of the z800. Download the "labtool" from http://www.3dvisor.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. There is an option to activate 3D mode, or stereo mode, I don't remember the literal.

Don't select "shutter marked", the marks are not used.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yomer »

I thought it was said that the marks were indeed used in the newest firmware. Then, what does the new z800 firmware do besides enabling other video cards to work?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

yomer wrote:I thought it was said that the marks were indeed used in the newest firmware. Then, what does the new z800 firmware do besides enabling other video cards to work?
I don't know, I've never had problems related to firmware version. If that's true for the newest firmware that would be awesome.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

Crim 3
I have 6.3 e, the latest version. About activating the z800 in labtool, you mean just toggling 2d to 3d mode correct? That is the only way I can see to activate it.
I get a vibration on the iz3d test (circling equipment thingy) and the ogere htrowing the spear. But my indicator does not turn green, nor does it seem to be 3d.

I have adjusted the convergence and seperation, but still no 3d.

any ideas? Hoping to start running studies next month. Measuring heart rate and skin conductance levels of people while they play a mod of half life (a fire evacuation simulation used by a british research). Eventually will apply to Post Traumatic Stress disorder and more. Not to mention computer addiction:)

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yomer »

Actually, the newest firmware is 6.38. Isn't it?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

I had thought the same as u, but when i contacted z800 Scott Schloemer told me that 6.3e was up to date. I know there was a 6.35, and I read about the 6.38 and the differences between the two. Emagin assured me that 6.3e was the latest and would run with ati or nvidia cards.

Screwiest setup I ever saw. Nvidia supplied the drivers up until 8000 series, then stopped b/c of their intro of 3d equipment, so now emagin doesnt supply its own drivers it states that its resellers have gotten the z800 to work on the iz3d drivers.

I just wanna play half life 2:)

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

Here is the email from April 2009

For your firmware, the most resent firm ware we have is 6.3E. If I
remember correctly from a previous e-mail you said this is the version
you have.

Iz3d drivers allow for more resent nvidia cards and ATI cards. More
information on them can be found on our website in the FAQ's found here
http://www.3dvisor.com/faqs.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope this helps you.

Scott Schloemer

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yomer »

I understand, but why the hell does emagin sell just the upgrade to 6.38? Are the firmwares the same? Are they so slightly different that emagin doesn't even care to tell the consumer the differences or recommend one over the other. :|

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

krysium wrote:Crim 3
I have 6.3 e, the latest version. About activating the z800 in labtool, you mean just toggling 2d to 3d mode correct? That is the only way I can see to activate it.
I get a vibration on the iz3d test (circling equipment thingy) and the ogere htrowing the spear. But my indicator does not turn green, nor does it seem to be 3d.

I have adjusted the convergence and seperation, but still no 3d.

any ideas? Hoping to start running studies next month. Measuring heart rate and skin conductance levels of people while they play a mod of half life (a fire evacuation simulation used by a british research). Eventually will apply to Post Traumatic Stress disorder and more. Not to mention computer addiction:)
Yes, I meant just that. In my side, when I activate 3D manually with labtool the led turns into solid green and stays like that for the rest of the session.
I didn't try those iz3d tests. I directly run FSX and worked well, except for the known sync problem.
I don't remember if I forced vertical sync in nvidia's control panel, but it's most likely advisable.

That project you describe sounds amazing. Are you going to gather objective data about the 'coolness' of stereo-3D? :shutter
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yomer »

crim3 wrote:
krysium wrote:Crim 3
I have 6.3 e, the latest version. About activating the z800 in labtool, you mean just toggling 2d to 3d mode correct? That is the only way I can see to activate it.
I get a vibration on the iz3d test (circling equipment thingy) and the ogere htrowing the spear. But my indicator does not turn green, nor does it seem to be 3d.

I have adjusted the convergence and seperation, but still no 3d.

any ideas? Hoping to start running studies next month. Measuring heart rate and skin conductance levels of people while they play a mod of half life (a fire evacuation simulation used by a british research). Eventually will apply to Post Traumatic Stress disorder and more. Not to mention computer addiction:)
Yes, I meant just that. In my side, when I activate 3D manually with labtool the led turns into solid green and stays like that for the rest of the session.
I didn't try those iz3d tests. I directly run FSX and worked well, except for the known sync problem.
I don't remember if I forced vertical sync in nvidia's control panel, but it's most likely advisable.

That project you describe sounds amazing. Are you going to gather objective data about the 'coolness' of stereo-3D? :shutter
Crim, isn't your setup enough to avoid sync problems with the z800 and iz3d?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

yomer wrote:Crim, isn't your setup enough to avoid sync problems with the z800 and iz3d?
No, it isn't. I just tested it a couple of days for curiosity. I'm still using nvidia driver and old hardware. I'm right now setting up a 8800gtx system with quad core processor. Maybe I could try again as I find it amazingly powerful, although it's already old hardware.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yomer »

You're setting the 8800 to use the registry hack and don't lose compatibility with nvidia's stereo, right? If you already bought it then it's too late. But if you haven't, you should consider waiting for version 2.00 of IZ3d drivers. If they do break through, you could then buy a newer cheap ati card.

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

Hey crim. good luck upgrading to the 8000 series. Since the old nvidia drivers do not work anymore you will have to switch to the iz3d. I had a 7600 that burned out right before I started the research. (bought it from newegg, asus I think, 13 months old:(

I am considering jumping to a 9000 series nvidia (bad experiences with ati customer service) a 1gb card to see if I can get the half life simulation running smoothly.

The research is awesome, I cannot wait to design a class on the impact and uses of computer media. Researchers used to spend tens of thousands of dollars building 3d programs to treat arachnophobia, fear of flying ptsd etc.
I came up with an idea (bouchard beat me by 2 years I found) to just buy half life and mod the heck out of it. She used it to successfully treat people with arachnophobia by hving them habituate to it using virtual reality googles and the half life game (several rooms with various spiders in them) and it worked well.

Man I still remember being excited about a text based game called zork II when I was in the 8th grade. And 5 1/4 inch disks on my commodore 128. I cannot wait to see this thing going.

I have never gotten the green light to come on solid. I am getting a copy of age of empires 3 to test for 3d. Half life 2 takes way too long to boot up.

What do you use to test the 3d again?

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by wuhlei »

too bad there is no adapter for this. :shutter
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

wuhlei can you play half life 2 in 3d with the 920? Your system is similar to mine. nvidia 8400gs 512mb, 3 gb ram, athlan x2 3800. I am about to upgrade and hope that helps, but if I shell out the money and its a driver issue Iwill totally cry, it wont be pretty. The kind where the tears go down through the nasolacrimal ducts and give you a runny nose and everything

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

If you have a broken 7600 this information can interest you:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=606658" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can resurrect GPU's and other electronic devices toasting them in a oven. It's not a joke. My brother brought back to life a faulty 8800gts. When he tested it after "cooking" it and saw it working he began to scream like mad all around the house :) The best of this method is that you have nothing to lose as the GPU is already out of order.
I must say that I tried it, too, with my old ati 9700 and didn't work, so it doesn't work 100% of times.

I don't understand why you can't enable the 3D mode of the z800. Maybe it's the firmware version after all.

yomer,
I already bought it, but it seems that it's working fairly well. I still have to test is more throughly. Anyway, I have my hopes in iz3d and their 2.0 driver.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by vrekks »

foxk: labtool will not work in vista 64 as confirmed by emagin.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by krysium »

I have tried the z800 in both 32 bit xp and vista on the same machine.

Hey I did try that oven trick. It worked for about two days then kapoot again, so i may ahve to try it a little hotter a little longer, when the wife is not home:)

While the 7600 was up I did finally get the green light on the z800 to go steady and I could see a difference in the shells as they ejected from the gun in Coutner strike source. I did not feel the rest was in 3d but the ejected cartridges really looked like it.

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by wuhlei »

oops
Last edited by wuhlei on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by wuhlei »

krysium wrote:wuhlei can you play half life 2 in 3d with the 920? Your system is similar to mine. nvidia 8400gs 512mb, 3 gb ram, athlan x2 3800. I am about to upgrade and hope that helps, but if I shell out the money and its a driver issue Iwill totally cry, it wont be pretty. The kind where the tears go down through the nasolacrimal ducts and give you a runny nose and everything
lol. I can play with a perfect 60fps. The vr920 works with halflife2 but the default settings suck. I didn't get a chance to try it with Iz3d yet.
Last edited by wuhlei on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

krysium wrote:While the 7600 was up I did finally get the green light on the z800 to go steady and I could see a difference in the shells as they ejected from the gun in Coutner strike source. I did not feel the rest was in 3d but the ejected cartridges really looked like it.
It takes time to learn how to set separation and convergence to properly show 3D. Also, some games using postprocess effects separates in two images but both are the same so there isn't 3D.

Keep in mind that with HMD's you have to use a low separation. Something like 16/17% will be equivalent to near 100% of separation in a monitor.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by genetic »

6.40 is out

https://e-store.emagin.com/miva/merchan ... gory_Code=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever that means

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by cybereality »

genetic wrote:6.40 is out

https://e-store.emagin.com/miva/merchan ... gory_Code=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever that means
Wow! It costs $25 just to upgrade the firmware!?!? What a bunch of crooks.

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by martinlandau »

Crytek was showing off thier new game engine for s3d at siggraph, it bypassed the drivers. I don't recall if they mentioned if their engine worked with the z800 though - maybe with this firmware upgrade it will - maybe I should have not sold mine. Isn't vuzix coming out with something just as good pretty soon? There were some french students at siggraph doing some augmented reality stuff with legos and small toys using 2 z800's. One of the top emerging technology awards there:

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/23940/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I tried to find out more about the software they were using, but I speak guttertrash and they were on refined francais so we had failure to communicate. Where are the real time babelfish PDA stuff to translate voice on our iphones?
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by edwingamino »

Hi will the Z800 work with the GTX 295 assuming i have the newest z800 firmware and iZ3d Firmware. Thanks!!!!! im interested in playing fallout and ghostbusters in 3 D.

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by yuriythebest »

cybereality wrote:
genetic wrote:6.40 is out

https://e-store.emagin.com/miva/merchan ... gory_Code=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whatever that means
Wow! It costs $25 just to upgrade the firmware!?!? What a bunch of crooks.

remember that the firmware upgrade kit is an actual "kit", that is a box with stuff inside that includes a new chip with the new firmware and also the tools needed to install it.
This upgrade kit includes a replacement chip for the existing EEPROM, instructions, and IC puller tool.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

edwingamino wrote:Hi will the Z800 work with the GTX 295 assuming i have the newest z800 firmware and iZ3d Firmware. Thanks!!!!! im interested in playing fallout and ghostbusters in 3 D.
It works, but there isn't any synchronization signal (by now), so left and right will be swapping often. Better wait a little longer.
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by lnrrgb »

Just a note, in case anyone else is futzing around with their unit (not that unit... the z800!). I plugged mine in, just to see if W& worked with it. I was able to get mine up and running, and 3D working nicely. I have the 6.3E firmware. Mine came with the 6.35 firmware, and I upgraded once, sometime ago (years). So I cannot verify exactly what the "e" stood for, but I would guess this firmware was eventually called 6.38. Don't hold me to it, but I may find out, and report back soon.

Anyway, that firmware, with the Labtool, and IZ3d set to marked shutter. I only tested it with that Igneous Volcano run mini game, but it all worked fine - so I was quite happy to see that. I would not look forward to seeing the colorbars all the time, but I think I could adjust that out of my field of vision somehow. But hey, it's cool things work.

My rig is only a C2D E8400 @ 3.0ghz, with (1) Asus 4850, (no crossfire yet...come-on v1.11) under W7 32bit. I have the IZ3d monitor hooked up as well (though only to one panel), and had the z800 as a 2nd monitor, in clone mode. So I might be able to restructure all that to get better performance (I was just testing things out), but I was easily getting 30fps (so no frame swapping).


Just thought I'd share, in case you cared for some nudging in this area. My z800 has sat unused for 94.3% of it's lifespan, due to....(oh nevermind, anyone reading this can guess why)

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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by satisfree »

i have buyed from some days Z800 on ebay, user :) but somebody can telle me, how it work???
My system is:

Intel E6600 on asus P5B-E MB, 1Gb Ram
Nvidia 9600
Win XP Pro, Iz3d driver installed, LabTools

i have set s3dshutter, marked on iz3d.
In labtools is have enabled "set 3d stereo" i think... , i have not understand if the button show 2d the 3d are enabled???
I have downloaded some stereo movie from 3dtv.at but when i see its, i dont see any 3d effect ....
Can you help me pleaseeeee????

p.s. Excuse me for my bad english, i am italian boy.

crim3
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D Projector Setup
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

When 3D is enable the LED of the z800 console is solid green.

The iz3d enables 3D in games. You should try some game or the tests that come with the iz3d software. I don't know how to see 3D movies with the iz3d driver.

Very important: Ctrl+F8 to swap eyes. If you feel that 3D is working but everything is weird and can't focus, probably the eyes are swapped. They will swap anyway as the iz3d doesn't generated the neccesary eye syncrhonization signal.
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W / Acer H5360 with Another Eye2000 shutters / nVIDIA GTX760

satisfree
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by satisfree »

Tnku for the support, i have tested whit cod4, and i see 3d, but i have some problem.
1) the visor after some minute shut down, and i must press power button on control.
2) when i see near images all right, but when i see distance, image trembles.

at the moment i use quadcore q600 whit ati 4870, iz3d driver set s3dshttuer marked, and labtool force 3d.
My visor have 6.3E firmware ( i would upgrade whit kit)
I have tested also eye swap, but no difference. Can you help me?
tnku

crim3
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D Projector Setup
Location: Valencia (Spain)

Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by crim3 »

satisfree wrote:Tnku for the support, i have tested whit cod4, and i see 3d, but i have some problem.
1) the visor after some minute shut down, and i must press power button on control.
2) when i see near images all right, but when i see distance, image trembles.

at the moment i use quadcore q600 whit ati 4870, iz3d driver set s3dshttuer marked, and labtool force 3d.
My visor have 6.3E firmware ( i would upgrade whit kit)
I have tested also eye swap, but no difference. Can you help me?
tnku
It has a timer to shut it down when not in use. The old z800 software sends a keep alive signal to avoid it. But, as this software is deprecated, the best solution for me is setting a very high value (actually the max. value allowed) with labtool. The problem is that I must be careful to not forget to turn the z800 off manually when is not in use. It won't do it by itself anymore.
In general, remember to turn it off with the middle button when is not in use. These displays have a relative low life time.

I don't know why the image trembles with far objects. It may be just that cod4 doesn't run fine with the iz3d driver. Try another game to see if there is any difference. At the end, the stereo drivers are hacks and can run better or worst depending the game.

You don't need the s3dshutter marked. As long as I know the z800 can't read those marks.

The big problem with stereo-3D is that the stereo and convergence settings can make a whole world of difference in the quality of the effect. Furthermore, this 'quality' can also vary depending personal preference, once you get experienced.
With the z800 you need very low separation values because the lenses that amplify the displays also amplify this separation and you can easily overshoot it and force you eyes to diverge and make you feel sick in seconds. In case it's of any help for you to set the separation with the iz3d driver, I use only 18% for separation with the nvidia driver when using the z800.
Then play with convergence. With first person shoothers, place your character in the game very near to an object like a wall and increase convergence until you feel it's near your face. If it's already too close or you are unable to focus on it reduce convergence. Too much convergence is also a sickness inducer. Then look to an open scene and press ctrl+F8 several times. It should make a big difference! With eyes swapped what is far seems near and what is near seems far. A total mess! If you can't see the difference, the two explanations are: very low 3D effect, or 3D not enabled at all.

I don't know the keys for all this except ctrl+F8. I tested the iz3d driver only a couple of days months ago and can't remember then.

You should go fine with your computer as long as the synchronization issue doesn't bother you too often.
Zalman Trimon ZM-M220W / Acer H5360 with Another Eye2000 shutters / nVIDIA GTX760

satisfree
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by satisfree »

Crim3 you have help me a lot, tnku. I'm just a new stereo user :) and i dont have experience. Now i want to try whit nvidia graphic card and upgrade firmware on my Z800.
I will try other games and i will tell you.
tnk, u

satisfree
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Re: Stereo3D with a Z800, Vista and non-nVidia cards? Really?

Post by satisfree »

Finally i have 3d whit my Z800, but I have low fps 27/30 max. I must change something ???
I have a Q600, 2Gb Ram and Ati 4870 and normally i make 250fps.
Crime can you help me? And another question I have 6.3e firmware, i would upgrade, but vrlogic (German) that selle chip from emagin in Europe,
tell me that this is last firmware and i dont need an upgrade. It's right? Tnku

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