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Which config for movies and 3D gaming

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:13 am
by Thundercast
Hi guys !
So here's the thing. I've been using 3Dvision since 4 years now, and I must say that I'm quite pleased with the result on recent video games. I moved to Canada last year, and didn't bring my stuff. I bought a laptop with a SLi of GTX680m though, and as I watch quite a lot of show and movies, I decided to buy a bigger display than my 17" laptop screen (I already have 3d vision, but the emitter in built in the computer, so I don't know if some of the hacks to use 3dvision on TVs or projs will work).
I'm willing to spend up to around 1500$ for a 3D 1080p >=50" display, but I have no idea what to buy (hdtv or projector ?). What I know though is that I definitely WILL see the 720p, so I really wanna avoid 720p tvs/proj.
I heard that passive 3Dtv are better than active ones for stuff like movies, and that they might also be better for gaming due to the fact that we can't play at 1080p 60fps/eye on active sets (afaik it is limited to 30fps/eye at 1080p) and that - even if it's relative I suppose - most people don't seem to notice the interlacing on LG TVs. Am I right ?
Also I'm afraid that due to the fact that the resolution is fixed at 1080p, on big screens games will look "too big" (I'm not talking about picture quality, I'm talking about having a small FOV, for example in third person view the character would be probably as big as me on a 60", and any HUD would be super huge). Is there a way to scale down games, ie see more on the sides / above (I know this would be the case on, say, a 4k TV, but is there really no way of having this FOV while keeping 1080p ?). I've never had a display >24", so maybe it's not really a problem.
And finally I'm not really sure if I should get a plasma TV (a good thing is that my room's is dimly lit), an LCD TV or a projector, since they all seem to have their pros and cons.

So far, here's what I (think I) found :
• For TVs, the best choices are LGs for passive displays and Samsung for active ones. I've read that LG's passive was better than Samsung's active to watch movies, but I really don't know which one is best for gaming. Also I really don't understand what TV manufacturers are doing. LG has made like 10 different models in two years (lm6200, lm6400, lm6700, lm7600, lm8600, la6200, la...), is there one that I should choose in particular given how I'm gonna use the TV ? The 7600 and LAxxxx series seem to the easiest to find though, probably because they're the most recent ones (but am I gonna notice the difference between an lm6200 and a 7600 / la6200 ? Because if there isn't, ... u=A6813236 might be a good offer :s). Also, should I go for the 240 Hz models if possible ? (I know it won't really change much when gaming since it's limited to 60 anyway)
• For projectors, I'm not really sure, but I think benq's w1070 can display 1080p at 120Hz, but I'm not sure (if it helps I have displayport and hdmis on my PC, so if there is any projector that needs 2 hdmi to do 1080/120 my pc can do it). I'll be sitting at about 6-7 ft from the display so apparently the w1080st is a better choice, at least according to ... ulator.htm (the w1080st is 120" from 2m, while the w1070 is 70", and I heard that for movies at least in 3D it's good to have a screen as big as possible)
• While projectors might have a flexible display size and afaik can do 1080p/120hz, they die after 2-3 years, are somewhat noisy and most can't do 2D -> 3D conversion on the fly (I heard LG tvs were very good at that). But for some reason I keep reading that if gaming is going to be part of the equation, DLP should really be considered.
• On recent displays, response time is no longer a problem, since they all have at least some kind of Gaming mode. (I hope it's true)
• I don't really need a Smart TV since my computer will be hooked up to it.
• Everybody told me that the bigger, the better, ie that if I have the choice between a 50" at x$ and a 60" at x+200 $, the 200$ plus is really worth it.
• I should not wait for 4k, because we won't see decent 4k 3d gaming before 1. hdmi 2.0 is out and 2. it's popular enough to drop below 2k, which is not to be expected before 2-3 years.

I'm not gonna import from the US (too many taxes), so it has to be available on one of the websites referenced by . (I'm saying this because it looks like it's more expensive here than in the US (you can lol at ... 74312.html ), and a few US models are not available in Canada and vice-versa)

Thank you very much !

Edit : Apparently the LA6200 models have an input lag of 30 ms mini. I might have been wrong when I said that input lag had been eliminated on current TVs. :-(
Edit 2 : Just saw ... rclocking/ . Is this the way checkerboard works ?

Re: Which config for movies and 3D gaming

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:10 pm
by cybereality
If you really want the full 1080P quality, you need to go with active shutter glasses. Passive FPR style TVs split the resolution between the eyes, so you effectively are only getting 720P quality. The Sony TVs are really nice, Panasonic also makes some good ones. Both are active.

I would recommend going with a projector, since they are really affordable and the screen is HUGE. The DLP projectors also have the least ghosting out of any solution. The only reason not to get a projector is if you don't have the space in your home (for example, in a college dorm). If you have the space, definitely go with a projector. I'm using the Optoma GT750, and it's great. While only 720P, the quality is nice, no visible ghosting, large image (short throw), works with lots of hardware (since its HDMI 1.4a compatible) and I only spent $600 on it. However, you might have trouble finding this model now.

If you must have 1080P, then look at the Optoma HD33. Its a little more expensive (twice the price) than the one I have but should also be good. Keep in mind that you will still only be able to play games at 720P due to HDMI limitations. However 3D Blu-Ray at 1080P is possible. If you watch a lot of Blu-Ray movies, this could be a good choice. If you only want it for gaming, then just go with the much cheaper 720P model.

Re: Which config for movies and 3D gaming

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:07 pm
by Thundercast
If you really want the full 1080P quality, you need to go with active shutter glasses. Passive FPR style TVs split the resolution between the eyes, so you effectively are only getting 720P quality. The Sony TVs are really nice, Panasonic also makes some good ones. Both are active.
But aren't they all limited to 24 fps / eye ? Unless checkerboard and interlacing work on active 3d displays. (seriously, why the hell would a manufacturer NOT make a displayport / hdmi 1.4b money, they'd sell so much to gamers) By the way, if you have tried, is the loss of pixels really apparent two meters away when using passive displays ? (You might tell me that it's weird that I would bother about a 720p active display but not about passive displays : the reason is, I don't think I can change the scale of a 720p image / game, ie everything is still apparently bigger than on a 1920*1080 or 1920*540 display)
As for projectors, I couldn't find any that was able to do stuff like interlaced, cb, or on-the-fly 2D to 3D conversion at 1080p (though, it's pretty funny how projectors are MUCH cheaper than TVs if you want 4k or any "serious" home theater setup). Also I'd need a short-throw one, and the more I read about the BenQ W1080st (which seems to be the only 1080p, 3D proj in my price range), the more I find people complaining about RBE.
Also if I want to keep as many 3D options as possible (Nvidia, IZ3D and Tridef), I suppose I should go for an active 3D display since afaik Nvidia and checkerboard are purely active afaik, and IZ3D and Tridef work on both active and passive. Unless those passive LG TVs can support all 3 3D methods... According to ... t_22488568 , it's even possible for me to keep using my 3D vision glasses on a passive display, so all 3 methods might actually work on passive displays too.
For passive displays, it looks like any <2 years old LG TVs are quite good. For active displays, I could only find the Panasonic Vieras (which have bad 3D and/or input lag according to many threads and reviews) and Samsung F5500 (apparently they have an issue called door effect, I don't really know what it is). So I really don't know which active TVs under 1500$ are good for what I want to do with the TV...
Thank you.

Edit : Just read that the ST50 were good for gaming and had some of the best 3D performance. Anybody can concur when playing on 3D with a PC ?
Edit 2 : Might sound stupid, but can't I just buy 2 ~500$ projectors and make a true 3d@1080/60 setup ?

Re: Which config for movies and 3D gaming

Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:41 pm
by Thundercast
Ok did a little more research, please correct me if I'm wrong :
As long as we're talking about using the display with a computer, projectors can do everything (I'm talking about 3D technologies, the refresh rate stuff, etc) any passive or active HDTV can do.
If this is true, then I think I might just go for an w1080st or optoma (well the benq seem to have much better input lag and the same quality). TVs are outrageously priced in Canada, especially when compared to US prices... I can't find though if I can somehow do "1080"/60fps/eye by using checkerboard or interlaced on projectors. Nor can I find if there is a way to use the Nvidia 3D vision emitter built in my pc and the glasses with the w1080st. And by the way, is the downgrade to 720p in 3D on a projector as bad as it is on PC monitors ? Thanks.

Re: Which config for movies and 3D gaming

Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:24 pm
by cybereality
That BenQ doesn't look bad. It also seems to support HDMI 1.4a, which is what you want. A lot of 3D projectors don't support the standard, so watch out! You will use DLP-Link glasses with that projector, NOT the Nvidia glasses. The DLP-Link glasses sync automatically with the image, you don't need an emitter. This isn't really a bad thing, since I find the DLP-Link to have better quality (or at least a brighter image) than the 3D Vision 1 glasses. There is also practically no ghosting, where-as on Nvidia glasses w/ LCD displays there is noticeable ghosting.

Honestly, 1080P 3D does look better than 720P. I'm not going to lie to you. This is what you would expect. However, I think 720P still looks "good enough" especially when you consider the other benefits (large screen, low ghosting, affordable price, etc.).