Help me peeps, PLEASE

Don't know the first thing about S-3D? Just bought your first pair of 3D glasses? Trying to figure out what to buy? Post HERE!
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primalinstinkt
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Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Hey guys. I think this is about hour 9 or 10 of reading up how to play 3D on my LG 47inch 3DTV LED LCD PASSIVE. I do not want to make this long as to gather as many readers and thus responses as possible. So let me describe my mood in a few words rather than an entire essay; angry, disappointed, frustrated, pissed off, let down.

Ok, I am in the process of building my PC. All I have left to do is pick a GPU. I love 3D and have ever since Avatar, and it has been my dream to play games on my TV on ultra graphics in 3D. The GPU I was planning to get was the GTX670. What do I find? That NVIDIA do not support passive sets. In fact they only support a select few. Why? Is this an attempt to monopolize and KILL the 3D industry? Is it greed? Maybe they have not noticed the effects? They do not want 3D gaming Mainstream? Why? The next gen Consoles will beat them to it then, JUST WTF IS THEIR PROBLEM!?

1) So, do I get a Radeon 7970 3gb (see Nvidia, you are losing customers you bastards) and use TriDef, as I do not have a TV that supports their HD3D.

2) Do I get the GTX670 and use TriDef and also use that .ini trick on the display driver?

3) Will TriDef even work on my PASSIVE TV? My glasses are not colorful, they are tinted blackish, cinema glasses LG.

4) What should I do so I can play 3D on my TV, using my PC and what GPU should I get?

Thank you guys. You what really gets to me the most, that Nvidia can easily support all Passive tv/monitors and all active sets in the blink of an eye. I mean a little trick on the display driver fricking works...what dogs man, I feel so cheated as I have always been a Geforce fan.

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cybereality
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by cybereality »

What is the exact model number of your TV?

It may be supported by Nvidia 3DTV Play. If not, I'd say AMD may be a better choice.

TriDef will almost surely work, but you may want an AMD card for the best compatibility.

primalinstinkt
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Thanks for responding to my post, I have also seen your display pick in another forum...could it be you lol? It was also 3D related...

Anyway, as I have been taught in anger management psycho-therapy, you must visualize and then process how you feel into words in order to safely express yourself. So before I smash my screen into pieces and use the glass shards to go on a rampage and then sue Nvidia for damages, today I feel more angry, upset, disappointed, shocked, deserted and finally extremely frustrated and physically full of rage.

My screen is LG 47LM6410. It is not supported by anything. HD3D only supports a select few screens and the bastards at Nvidia only support a few polarized screens, which they also help sell, how coincidental. They do support active with their special bullshit 3dTV activations, that are not even true 3d.

I am thinking of still grabbing that GTX670 only because of that tutorial that can be found online that tricks the drivers into thinking the are Acer or Zalman lol. ENDID and .ini or some crap. If this hack was not possible I would have gone with the 7790 and use TriDef.
But what is the point? Since I can also use Tridef with the GTX...so I can have best of two worlds.

If Radeon had 100% guarantee that it would work with this TV on supported games, I would ditch GTX in the blink of an eye(this is coming from a Nvidia fanboy, or ex-fanboy) but I do not 100% trust something like TriDef, so the Nvidia back up would help, and I could also hack the bastards as payback, despite paying for their shitty card.

What do you guys think? What should I do....not having 3D is not an option, I love it too much...the immersion is the best.

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cybereality
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by cybereality »

Despite what it says on AMDs site, I think they actually support any HDMI 1.4a compatible TV. So you should be fine with AMD. HDMI 1.4a refers (primarily) to the frame-packing modes: 1080P24 and 720P60. Since its an passive FPR-style display (interleaved) that means you can also feed it an interleaved signal directly (they call it 'line alternative'). You can also feed in a side-by-side or top-bottom format.

The frame-compatible formats (SBS, interleave, top-bottom) will work with any type of GPU (Nvidia, AMD, even Intel). The frame-packing requires special hardware, though. If you go with Nvidia you WILL NOT be able to use the HDMI frame-packing mode. With AMD you will unlock the ability to use frame-packing (in addition to the other modes mentioned). Honestly its not the biggest deal, you can still play games with either option, but AMD will probably give you more choices in terms of compatibility. Though if that Nvidia hack works, you would get the choice of 2 drivers instead of just the DDD driver. Something to consider.

primalinstinkt
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Cyber, thank you for your responses. They are truly helpful. I had a feeling that HD3D would be compatible with 3DTV HDMI1.4a sets because of the list of supported TVs being so low. But it is just so vague. If HD3D does in fact support all the 1.4a, it will be a game changer for me.

About frame packing, I have read in parts about the AMD HD3D using 30hz 1080p, this must be it.

I am going to look further into this...

primalinstinkt
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Hey, I have been researching some more and have an idea how sbs and top/bottom works. I can also confirm that HD3D is available to all 1.4a HDMI 3DTVs.

What I still do not really understand however is how frame-packing works and why it is exclusive only to AMD via TriDef. I know the reason is because AMD sponsors TriDef, but what does frame-packing do that sets itself apart from all the generic options? What is good about it? Is it SBS or top and bottom run in combination with Frame Packing mode for example, or is it its own category altogether?

If I have both TriDef and the Nvidia driver installed, won't that give me more compatibility options than just HD3D/TriDef alone?

I am starting to lean towards the 7970 but want to know what the HD3D assets and good qualities are.

Cheers guys.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by Fredz »

primalinstinkt wrote:What I still do not really understand however is how frame-packing works and why it is exclusive only to AMD via TriDef.
Frame-packing is a standard 3D format for HDMI (above and below with an horizontal black bar inbetween), so there shouldn't be any limitations on its usage. Unfortunately drivers manufacturers don't seem to like open standards, so they add arbitrary restrictions to their usage. That's what NVIDIA does by requiring whitelisted displays, don't know if that's the case for AMD/TriDef.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

No, AMD's approach seems to be open ended and supporting all 3DTVs' that have HDMI 1.4a. So is frame-packing the best option to go with? Like is it better than all those other generic options sbs, interleaved etc?

Also, my TV does not have 1.4aHDMI, it only has 1.4. Are these the same? Because I can not find any display that supports 1.4A....will only a 1.4 work?

Any AMD HD3D users here, please help me...I think I may get the 7970 just need some more info! Thanks.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by cybereality »

I would recommend getting the 7970. Seems like that is the one you want anyway.

That TV you have does support HDMI 1.4a 3D. I checked the manual. You will be better off with an AMD card.

primalinstinkt
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Thanks for all your help guys. I know I am pushing it now with more questions, but this is sorta a big investment for me $$ wise, that only yields a return of enjoyment :).

Yes, I want the 7970, but I still want to know what is so good about frame-packing....what does it do that makes it so special to be only available on a AMD card? I have heard that it actually makes the game look worse than other modes, this is why I am asking.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by Fredz »

Basically frame-packing gives you a full resolution image for each eye, although only 1280x720 when at 60Hz, but 1920x1080 at 24Hz (for 3D movies).

Frame compatible formats don't give you a full resolution for each eye :
- half side-by-side : 960x1080@60Hz for each eye, scaled to 1920x1080 ;
- half above-and-below : 1920x540@60Hz for each eye, scaled to 1920x1080 ;
- interleaved : 1920x540@60Hz for each eye, scaled to 1920x1080 ;

Frame packing is the best solution for 3D movies since you've got the full resolution at 24Hz, but for 3D games it's probably a matter of personal preference. People posted their feelings in another thread about frame-packing vs frame compatible formats, IIRC most of them preferred the frame-packing format.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Thank you very much for all the info guys. This forum has been very helpful.

I also have a few more question with regards to the LG 3DTV I have.
We all know that input lag is horrible with TVs and I have read that it gets really bad with 3D game play. The LG is a FPR style passive 3DTV. Now the way I can get rid of input lag on this TV is to play in interleave mode and feed it a direct link (line reversed) so that the TV does no processing of its own. This is how I plan to play the games to avoid input lag, but now another problem comes up.

There is a colorbug within these TVs when 3D mode interleave or checkerboard is activated!


1) Firstly, which TV brands have FPR style passive? I mean it's a great thing for games and beats any other passive setup where input lag is concerned. I want to know just for future reference and to give advice to friends etc. I have read that LG were the pioneers of this technology and Toshiba, along with Soniq also have it?

2) Does Toshiba or Soniq or any other FPR style have the colorbug?

3) Can anyone help me on providing a solution to fix the colorbug problem whilst gaming in interleave? I have read all these forums about EDID fixes and what have you... Anything reliable I can fall back on without all this complicated stuff?

4) Also, how is input lag with frame-packing?

5) Is there anything else that you guys think I should know about before I grab my new GPU? I am not sure if I have missed something.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by cybereality »

Sorry, I don't know much about this color bug.

There are a few different brands with FPR TVs, I like Vizio has the cheapest ones.

In terms of input lag: I imagine it might incur some delay to do the processing, but I have never found it to be an issue. Certainly HDMI 1.4a is playable for gaming at 720P.

primalinstinkt
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Hey, I finally got my new card 7970. I am now running the 14day trial of Tridef on my LG tv.

I really like the effects of 3d, but I am getting input lag. In the in-game options by pressing 0 on numpad, I tried side by side and all that, but I do not know how to run in pure interleave mode. It has one mode called soft interleave? I tried all the options but lag is same. My tv also always turns its own 3d on when I run tridef.

As in each time I run tridef, my tv automatically puts its 3d on. If I turn its 3d off, tridef does not show in 3d either?

I thought the tvs 3d could be turned off and tridef process the 3d by just using the physical fpr panel of the tv?

Help please, the input lag ruins the game.

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cybereality
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by cybereality »

You don't have to turn the TV into 3D mode. Go in the TriDef display options and choose interleaved display (may be called line-interlaced). It will be the correct format, you just need to but on the 3D glasses and thats it.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Hey Cyber.

I have now gone into the control panel for Tridef and changed the display from AMD to "standard display". I then have tried all the interleave options, including reverse and my tv does not turn its 3D on anymore, but the problem is it is just a bunch of blurry lines that are not 3d. The picture looks very distorted!? Any ideas?

I have tried the LG Tridef download, but my TV is not supported.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by cybereality »

Make sure you are running Windows and/or your games at your TVs native resolution.

Also, your TV may have some interpolation involved (smooth motion, etc.). Try to see if you can turn it off.

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by primalinstinkt »

Cyber, I have tried everything. Turned the input to PC, then to game, I have tried to turn of settings. I could not find the smooth motion button.

I mean when I go to interlaced mode, it looks like it will be 3d, but then when I put on the glasses, it is just very distorted and not even 3d. I am running hdmi 1.4 cable to the tv.

I have it all set at the native 1080p resolution 1920 X 1080. The only way it works is if I use my TV 3D modes, but the games are unplayable. Like I can set it to side by side and then use the tv remote to set it, and it looks quite amazing once my eyes attach. But again it is just too much input lag.

The interlaced feed does not force my tv to turn on its 3d so i can tell it will not be laggy, but the picture is not 3d LOl.

Any ideas? I will try any that people post. help!!

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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by Guig2000 »

Possibly the overscan option is activated on catalyst control panel.

Also, you could try to use top/bottom. You will be able to get 1920*540 per eye @60Hz (the max that can give your TV) and it will avoid any line melted issue. Maybe by using this mode, you will not get as input lag as with the 24Hz of the 1080p frame packed.
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Re: Help me peeps, PLEASE

Post by skyguy »

What game is the problem? Some games get confused with having native and third party drivers and will give a blur of lines depending on what mode you set it too. Line Interlace reverse is the correct option for Tridef as long as scaling in Catalyst Control is set to 0 for your native resolution. Some games like crysis 2 will use 24Hz but then you have to set scaling for 0 again for 24Hz resolution too or you can just toggle the v-sync button in game to get the game to stay in 60 Hz.

Blurry lines with glasses on is when your tv does not have the scaling set correctly for the specific resolution you are using. Also, Tridef now requires you to modify the registry to over/under scan games if you prefer playing at higher/lower resolutions from the native to match your fpr screen.

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