iZ3D in 2020

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Feisty_Fernando
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

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bo3bber
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

john105 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:13 pmI've never used iZ3D, so I thought I wouldn't be a very good tester. But seeing that nobody here really made it work, I decided to give it a try.

Installation went well. It installs 2 kernel-mode drivers and 2 services. They have the following description:

iZ3DInjectionDriver / Driver inject our D3D and OGL wrappers
iZ3D Driver\Win64\S3DInjectionDriver.sys

iZ3DShutterService
system32\Drivers\iZ3DShutterService.sys

S3DSvc64 / S3D Service (Win64) / Inject and UnInject 3D driver
iZ3D Driver\Win64\S3DCService.exe

S3DSvc32 / S3DSvc64 / Inject and UnInject 3D driver
iZ3D Driver\Win32\S3DCService.exe

I tried it with 2 old games, Half-Life 2 and Dead Space. Anaglyph mode worked fine in both games and both built-in tests. Even the "iZShutterOutput" mode kind of worked, but unfortunately it doesn't look like it's compatible with 3D Vision. I just saw a blinking double image in that mode.

I did it on Core i9-9900KS, GTX 1080 Ti, 3D Vision monitor, Win 7 and 425.31 driver.
Thank you kindly for trying out the prior version and determining the state. This is really helpful to know. If you are motivated, maybe try playing a game in anaglyph since it's working and see what you think of the 3D itself.

I've experimented with the install on Win10, and it will blue screen during installation. The installation of the kernel driver has an illegal reference bug somewhere, and since it's running in privileged mode, it will blue screen. I'm going to contact the vendor for the hook library and see if we might be able to get an open-source license, as the easiest path.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

Guig2000 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:22 am I now remember that D3D10+ IZ3D injection stopped to works on Nvidia after some GeForce driver version (maybe 230 something).

EDIT:
A method that activate 3Dvision glasses for iZ3D: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... ision-gla/
Thanks for the key info here. I've not used iZ3D except for a SystemShock2 long back, so am mostly unfamiliar.

It doesn't look like 3D Vision was ever supported directly via iz3d. But of course there is a lot of code here to check through and understand.


I've setup the GitHub starting repo for the project, so we are a 'real' thing now. https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D

I've spent a fair bit of time reading the code and understanding the components, and I think the DX11 support is possibly better than I expected. It's written as DX10 support, but there is almost no architectural difference between the two.

To understand better, I'll need to get something that I can actually run. This will be at least a couple of months of work, probably more, unless we can get a madchook license. (Too pricey for us, but the author said he supports open-source projects on occasion.)

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by john105 »

bo3bber wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:37 am Thank you kindly for trying out the prior version and determining the state. This is really helpful to know. If you are motivated, maybe try playing a game in anaglyph since it's working and see what you think of the 3D itself.

I've experimented with the install on Win10, and it will blue screen during installation. The installation of the kernel driver has an illegal reference bug somewhere, and since it's running in privileged mode, it will blue screen. I'm going to contact the vendor for the hook library and see if we might be able to get an open-source license, as the easiest path.
I don't have any glasses for anaglyph to try, but luckily I was able to make iZ3D work with 3D Vision by following the instructions from the link that Guig2000 gave on the last page( https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... ision-gla/ ). The only thing I did differently was using 3D Vision Photo Viewer instead of photos.3dvisionlive.com that is no longer available. It works fine except for one thing, eyes are getting swapped from time to time like mentioned in the above topic.

Overall I liked iZ3D in the 2 games that I tried. But it's still not as good as fixes from our shaderhackers. Some minor things were displayed incorrectly.

What I really hated about iZ3D is it's very intrusive. It injects its dlls in most processes, even the ones that don't use Direct3D or OpenGL. It causes 2 types of problems for some programs. 1. Showing the "Can't load output DLL" message on top of the GUI. 2. Crashes the program. A good example is DDU, which is affected by both issues. Some other programs are affected by #1 but not #2. #1 can be fixed by unchecking "Enable stereo at application startup" and #2 only by "Disable Driver". It looks like only maybe 5% of programs that I have are affected, but still, it would be really annoying to constantly disable and reenable it.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by vegetableharry »

Hi,

is the code only for you available or is it open source now?
I would really like to take a look at it.

Ciao Veggie

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

john105, there is a blacklist into the config file .xml in order to avoid that.
But the driver have a performance impact if loaded, even in 2D mode, so the good idea is to disable iZ3D when not needed.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by john105 »

vegetableharry wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:29 pm Hi,

is the code only for you available or is it open source now?
I would really like to take a look at it.

Ciao Veggie
The link was posted earlier:
bo3bber wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:41 am I've setup the GitHub starting repo for the project, so we are a 'real' thing now. https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D

Guig2000 wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:42 pm john105, there is a blacklist into the config file .xml in order to avoid that.
But the driver have a performance impact if loaded, even in 2D mode, so the good idea is to disable iZ3D when not needed.
Thanks, it's good to know. But in any case, I don't think I'll really be using it. I only installed it to test because bo3b asked. I wanted to mention these issues as something I would not like to see in the open source version. I think a black list is the worst option to deal with the problem because I would need to add all software I have to it to be safe. Some kind of a white list would be better, and the way 3D Vision "just works" without any black/white lists or disabling/enabling it every time would be perfect (but maybe not achievable).

Generally I prefer software without drivers or services because it means that it's not something always running in the background and won't interfere with the system unless started manually (like Helifax's wrapper for example) or by a game via a .dll copied to its folder (like 3Dmigoto).

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

The best way in order to avoid that may be the tridef ignition way, where only games that are launched within the ignition control panel runs in S3D.
But it avoid microsoft game store games to works. So it still require an additional general "on" swich for this games.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by mhalsan »

I'm very glad to hear IZ3D might be started back up. It was the first 3D driver I used back in 2008, under WinXP.

Is there a crowd-fund or Patreon set up for this yet?

Thanks, Mark

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

mhalsan wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:11 pm I'm very glad to hear IZ3D might be started back up. It was the first 3D driver I used back in 2008, under WinXP.

Is there a crowd-fund or Patreon set up for this yet?

Thanks, Mark
I'd be curious to see if the dual-projector output for passive projection could be unlocked for non-AMD video cards.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by 3DNovice »

RAGEdemon wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:56 am 4. There is a marked output for which we can modify hardware to use shutter glasses with
I'm assuming that you are referring to the blue line code inserted by iz3D in each frame for frame sequential mode, that could possibly be leveraged to make
3D Vision glasses/emitters and monitors viable. Perhaps it could be leveraged to give proper extinction on non 3D Vision 120Hz monitors that seem to suffer from in-resolvable ghosting.
As well as allowing 144Hz and above 3D experiences :)

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bo3bber wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:41 am To understand better, I'll need to get something that I can actually run. This will be at least a couple of months of work, probably more, unless we can get a madchook license. (Too pricey for us, but the author said he supports open-source projects on occasion.)
So, I guess you've ruled out switching it to EasyHook/Deviare/Detours?

As an onlooker, it seems to me that switching to a fully OSS option would be more "future proof" over the long term (no reliance on a single company for continued development), and could make it easier for people to contribute the overall project.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by jeroenkramer »

The forum of iz3d had a topic on the game City Car Driving, and some fixes. it had some performance updates, and fix for rotating trees. ( http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=8095 )

Is there a chance this from the forum is saved?

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by PPorquer3D »

Hello, i am glad to hear that this driver is still alive & sought after-

i hope that openGL support for it gets developed further, there is lots of Nintendo 64 games with high definition texture packs that would benefit with the addition of 3d, but these texture paks or some of the visual effects are only available with the emulator's OpenGl plugins, & so far i never got them to work in 3d.

UPdate - yesterday i was able to run "mario kart reloaded" in OpenGL mode by modifying the configuration file of iz3d - Config.xml
to activate openGL driver modify these lines:
<OGLRunAtStartup Value="1"/>

further down

<EmulateQB Value="1"/> ----- this activates quadbuffer emulation


The windows 10 issue - i hope we can get it working, some programs (mostly emulators) can only work with windows 10 by pasting certain .dll files inside the executable folder, i am wondering if this need to be done with IZ3d & some of the games that we need to run

edit: another driver that converts Opengl games to 3d is the one fetured on LG optimus phones. the only flaw it had is that some heavy games/emulators would get really slow. I wish someone could figure out how to port this driver from android to windows

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

So awesome I found this thread, I was able to reset my IZ3D 30 day license with the instructions from Rage Demon's post. Just awesome to be able to use IZ3D's driver again. There are just some games IZ3D handles better than NV and Tridef IMO such as Far Cry 2. The same could be said of each depending on the game though. Would be great to have it working in Win 10. Big thanks to those working on this.

The question was asked for how IZ3D users like to launch the game. I'm not particular but see a possible problem if you forget to disable the nVidia 3D driver both could launch. Maybe a game launcher like the fix manager and helixvision would be better?

In any case, I've searched for a way to use IZ3D since my second IZ3D monitor died last year. The trial hack enables me to use it on my Win 7 machine so I'm happy for now.

I would love to help, but my coding ability stops at visual basic and access. Thanks again and look forward to what you come up with

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Wow! For what it's worth, side by side is working brilliantly here on Win 7 box with projector and 3DTV and the reset trial. I don't recall getting to try their side by side before, I bought the license when I did to use with my Emagine Z800 HMD, precursor to modern VR. I remember using field sequential with IZ3D, the only output the Z800 could use, but was called something else.

Also for a short time IZ3D had full open gl support. There was a 30 day license period just like the other outputs. I bought the open gl license. One driver update and it was gone. Memory is faint on this since it's been around a decade, but I remember writing support and their response was there was a legal problem with their use of open gl support and could not help or refund

Not sure if it would be of any help because early IZ3D drivers were not very stable but I've been hording all of those IZ3D drivers all these years. I zipped and dropped them here https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1kckl4p6olcq ... s.zip?dl=0

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Robert256 »

Hi guys,

Regarding the hardware compatibility problem: I'm thinking of developing a simple device based on a cheap ($2) Digispark board, with a photosensor and some IR leds. The problem is that it is difficult to get a VSync signal out of your computer, which is needed to sync your glasses with the monitor. In older VGA monitors you could easily read out a pin, but that doesn't work for HDMI or displayport anymore. The pyramid and 3D controller driver are used to provide this syncing, but may give compatibility problems in the future (also, if the pyramid dies, it will be increasingly difficult to replace).
By drawing a small square in a corner of the screen (for instance white for right, black for left image), and reading it with the photosensor, we could control an IR led array to make the glasses work. That way, we could develope a cheap open source solution which can completely circumvent the pyramid and USB driver, and it would work on all 120Hz monitors, also in the future.
The Digispark board (or clones) work at 16 or 16.5 MHz, I have the feeling that should be enough to get the timings for the glasses right. They are very easy to program.

Regarding the timing of IR pulses, I saw this post, which should be very helpful in writing the Digispark code: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9790

It would be trivial to add code for drawing the small square to the iZ3D or other drivers.

Has someone already tried something like this ?

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by russellk »

Robert256 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:48 am Hi guys,

Regarding the hardware compatibility problem: I'm thinking of developing a simple device based on a cheap ($2) Digispark board, with a photosensor and some IR leds. The problem is that it is difficult to get a VSync signal out of your computer, which is needed to sync your glasses with the monitor. In older VGA monitors you could easily read out a pin, but that doesn't work for HDMI or displayport anymore. The pyramid and 3D controller driver are used to provide this syncing, but may give compatibility problems in the future (also, if the pyramid dies, it will be increasingly difficult to replace).
By drawing a small square in a corner of the screen (for instance white for right, black for left image), and reading it with the photosensor, we could control an IR led array to make the glasses work. That way, we could develope a cheap open source solution which can completely circumvent the pyramid and USB driver, and it would work on all 120Hz monitors, also in the future.
The Digispark board (or clones) work at 16 or 16.5 MHz, I have the feeling that should be enough to get the timings for the glasses right. They are very easy to program.

Regarding the timing of IR pulses, I saw this post, which should be very helpful in writing the Digispark code: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9790

It would be trivial to add code for drawing the small square to the iZ3D or other drivers.

Has someone already tried something like this ?
Hi Robert,

I'm sure Ragedaemon did something similar to this years ago.

When I was trying to get my projector working I found the same post you did, but there are also quite a few other similar topics on this board, some with other code etc. I believe. I can't find the links at the moment though.

I've been looking at something similar on and off as I have a sync issue with my projector. I've seen some other ideas on extracting vsync, for example by using a 1>2 HDMI splitter then using an HDMI decoder on one of the outputs. There are even HDMI decoder boards available for the PI, but I'm not sure if they have a high enough pixel clock etc. to support 1920x1080x120hz.

Also remember that you need more than just 120Hz support in a monitor, otherwise you'll get bad ghosting.
Win 10 1903 (Via 3dfix manager - Non DCH), 9700K, Gigabyte 2080Ti OC, BenQ XL2420T 3d surround, LG 3d OLED, 4k Projector (3dtvplay), WMR Odyssey+, WIn 19 1809 (425.31), Win 7 Pro x64

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Robert256 »

russellk wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:02 am Hi Robert,
I'm sure Ragedaemon did something similar to this years ago.
When I was trying to get my projector working I found the same post you did, but there are also quite a few other similar topics on this board, some with other code etc. I believe. I can't find the links at the moment though.
I've been looking at something similar on and off as I have a sync issue with my projector. I've seen some other ideas on extracting vsync, for example by using a 1>2 HDMI splitter then using an HDMI decoder on one of the outputs. There are even HDMI decoder boards available for the PI, but I'm not sure if they have a high enough pixel clock etc. to support 1920x1080x120hz.
Also remember that you need more than just 120Hz support in a monitor, otherwise you'll get bad ghosting.
Hi Russellk, I'm aware that other solutions have been built and proposed. But they all require expensive hardware (either PIC programmers or HDMI decoder boards) and extensive technical knowledge. Arduino boards like the Digispark are extremely cheap and can easily be programmed on any computer. A simple tutorial would be enough for everyone to build one themselves.
Unfortunately simple and cheap HDMI to VGA adapters don't giva a valid VSYNC pulse, otherwise we could use one of those to read the VGA pin and skip the photosensor part, which would make the timing part much easier. It would be great to have a very easy to make and inexpensive alternative for the pyramid.
16.5 Mhz should allow for timing adjustments to minimize the ghosting. If the code is open source, you can easily optimize the settings for your specific monitor. For CRT-monitors you could even easily tweak the timing by placing the small square / photosensor at a different height.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by 3DNovice »

Years ago, when I used to read this forum, I read a post by someone that said they used some type of light sensor.

I wish I could link the thread, but I can't find it. I do recall that it was stated that they were simply detecting the frame/display panel change

They mounted it to the front of the display and it would sense the frames changing, just as you are suggesting.

This approach makes sense to me for the least ghosting, because syncing to frames exiting the GPU does not account for any delays to the image being shown.

Such as individual display panel response, the display panel technology used (TN, VA, IPS / LED or OLED) and proprietary image processing applied to the incoming image that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.

For dx11 games, I would think that the overlay you suggest could easily be added in using 3Dmigoto, just like there is currently the in-game settings overlay accessed via F1.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Had time to play with it a bit. I have 4 3D devices that I can try it on. A 65" passive LG 3D TV, a HD DLP projector with EDID override, a ASUS 3D ready monitor and a 3D ready projector. I'm assuming trying it in Win 10 is futile? Everything tried so far has been in Win 7.

The first time I tried it on my HD projector, I didn't see shutter as an option. It came up when I tried it a second time. Shutter is working here with the shutter glasses from the projector but as someone else posted, left and right is constantly being inverted. Looks great when in correct mode. Anaglyph and side by side working flawlessly , in fact really surprised how well it runs in Win 7 compared to XP days with their OEM monitor.

Feel free to PM me if there is anything you want me to try with the gear I have.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

A few new SBS taken with IZ3D. Far Cry 2 Image Image This using my 3DTV and their SBS output. I'll take a few with their shutter output when I get a chance.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

I like this thread.
Because I have updated my screen and I have run out of 3d. The new one I can't get it to sync with the nvidia glasses. (I have tried to follow some tutorials, but I don't understand anything about how that synchro works).
I'm attentive here to see if I find any alternative to continue playing in 3d with it in some way.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Isaacvigo wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:47 am I like this thread.
Because I have updated my screen and I have run out of 3d. The new one I can't get it to sync with the nvidia glasses. (I have tried to follow some tutorials, but I don't understand anything about how that synchro works).
I'm attentive here to see if I find any alternative to continue playing in 3d with it in some way.
Greetings, you should probably start a new thread asking for help with your new monitor, if it's 3D capable, chances are someone here can help you get back in the game with an EDID override or possibly fix manager can get you sorted. Good luck

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

Grant S wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:03 pm Greetings, you should probably start a new thread asking for help with your new monitor, if it's 3D capable, chances are someone here can help you get back in the game with an EDID override or possibly fix manager can get you sorted. Good luck
I have created a thread, viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25542
but it may not be well understood, since English is not my native language, or it may also be that there is no known solution for that monitor ...
The thing is, there have been no answers.
Regards.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Isaacvigo wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:19 pm
Grant S wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:03 pm Greetings, you should probably start a new thread asking for help with your new monitor, if it's 3D capable, chances are someone here can help you get back in the game with an EDID override or possibly fix manager can get you sorted. Good luck
I have created a thread, viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25542
but it may not be well understood, since English is not my native language, or it may also be that there is no known solution for that monitor ...
The thing is, there have been no answers.
Regards.



Your English is very good actually and I think you articulated clearly what you want. As you can see, these forums aren't as popular as they once were. Sadly probably a sign that no official 3D support from anyone has had an effect. I have a feeling you will have to mod the EDID to get that to work. Here is a good thread that may get you in the right direction. https://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtop ... 25&p=22698 There are some folks here that know a great deal about it. If it's possible, I think you've come to the right place.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

Grant S wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:45 pm Your English is very good actually and I think you articulated clearly what you want. As you can see, these forums aren't as popular as they once were. Sadly probably a sign that no official 3D support from anyone has had an effect. I have a feeling you will have to mod the EDID to get that to work. Here is a good thread that may get you in the right direction. https://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtop ... 25&p=22698 There are some folks here that know a great deal about it. If it's possible, I think you've come to the right place.

You're very kind. Many thanks. I'm going to squeeze that thread, to see what I can understand :)
Greetings!

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Feisty_Fernando »

Grant S wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:57 pm

In any case, I've searched for a way to use IZ3D since my second IZ3D monitor died last year. The trial hack enables me to use it on my Win 7 machine so I'm happy for now.

My iZ3D died, it only took 3 new caps on the power board to be back up and running. Unless you have a cracked screen, it's often a <$10 fix with some soldering and a few hours of time. Mine is running like new again but I don't use Win 7 anymore.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Feisty_Fernando wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:18 am
Grant S wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:57 pm

In any case, I've searched for a way to use IZ3D since my second IZ3D monitor died last year. The trial hack enables me to use it on my Win 7 machine so I'm happy for now.

My iZ3D died, it only took 3 new caps on the power board to be back up and running. Unless you have a cracked screen, it's often a <$10 fix with some soldering and a few hours of time. Mine is running like new again but I don't use Win 7 anymore.
Thank you Sir, the first one I had was a bad screen. Fortunate for me it was under warranty so I was able to return it. This one I'm 99% certain it is the caps on that power board. I do plan to recap it sometime. I have 4 3D devices now that I no longer use, including that one. My old Emagine Z800, my HP passive 3D monitor and a ASUS 3D ready monitor. The IZ3D had an amazing picture for it's time but my eye sight is at a point now that I can no longer read text on those tiny things without glasses. With the way I have things set up now, I really don't have 2 spare DVI's or display ports. When I do fix it, it will probably just go back in storage for a rainy day like my other obsolete toys and VR HMD's

I was able to reset the IZ3D 30 day trial by following what Rage posted on the first page. I plan to be evaluating that driver with my current devices on my Win 7 machine as long as I'm able. This was the part of Rage's post that got me sorted.
What I do is to delete a folder in "c:\Program Data" that looks like a random name. Something like "Fmdfzxl" or similar. In there there is only one file with the extension ".li5"

Then you must run regedit and search for "msdaipp". You'll find a key with that name. It has a subkey named "Providers". There you'll find one or more keys that are GUID names (those long series of numbers and letters). Delete them.

From this point you should have 30 more days left of trial. You'll have to do it again every month, so don't forget the steps.
The only difference was in regedit for "msdaipp", there were two keys I had to delete, all keys under "providers", and there was another entry for "provider" Once I deleted all those, the trial reset. Thanks again

Vital
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Vital »

Hi all!
Thank you guys who make iZ3D become open source. I started my Stereo3D experience from it and this is a good universal injector. Only iZ3D gave me able to play games below DirectX9 and there were no problems with incorrect depth of shaders at all. I loved to play `System Shock 2`, `Microsoft Flight Simulator`, `The Hunter`(Online), etc, and even used it for my DIY HMD with the custom output options in the config file with `The Hunter` and `Arma 2`. The only pain was is a mess of settings as usual in all of these injectors, no one keeps correct settings while changing FOV(I made settings with a ruler on screen for each game and it was not easy to get the correct 66mm IPD shift and correct world size feel at the same time because settings ruined each other(`nv3Dvision` at least keeps constant images shift for user IPD independent). I think the main reason why 3D has not become popular is misunderstanding and total mess with settings and content. A long time ago I made correct settings Stereo3D system and using it with my projects in Unity. From the end of 2020, I update my system and also decided to publish it for free to all - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25558

I don't know who wants to see a mono image after try correct realistic S3D, the same as sound - who wants a mono after good stereo - nonsense. But stereo sound already everywhere by default so why not the same for video if it is even more important as visual information but still not exist by default in 2021 - very retarded. Manufacturers should include at least polarized Stereo 3D in all TVs and monitors by default because it very cheap, comfortable, and healthy. Only give easy correct settings, content, and enjoy. But there is no content if the hardware does not support it, so first need to supply hardware. I wanted to buy a new LG 3D OLED 4K TV but not find it, signed a petition about return manufacturing the production of LG `Cinema 3D` and bought a mono OLED 4K. They get money but deprived us of the opportunity to enjoy the S3D with superb OLED colors, damn. VR HMD's good for not too long sessions like physical training but all other time I don't want to see a mono image of the 3D world on screen. So Stereo 3D screen needs as the default base starting point.

I see many of you still using active blinking output, but I don't like it, only one eye vision at a moment, expensive hardware and problems, heavy glasses, and blinking not healthy. I spent many thousands of hours in S3D gaming with LG D2342P monitor and Zalman glasses, sometimes many full days nonstop over 12 hours per day. I don't want to even try doing as much with something blinking in front of my eyes. :D I love interlaced, it's like a nostalgia filter from the gaming of the '90s and it looks much better than a half vertical resolution in mono, but performance near the same as mono when removed not used rows(half resolution, it also make perfect perception of S3D antialiasing) at the render stage like in my system. And also output same as mono - already two images mixed In one so no need double bandwidth, etc. Double bandwidth needs if the monitor has the ability to show 2 full images like the double screen in one of the iZ3D monitor. I think it's the best output method for screens like an improved version of DIY two monitors with half-mirror construction for getting two full-resolution images in one and deliver it via polarized glasses. Very sad that iZ3D monitor did not go further. So, why are you not didn't move to polarized at a time it was available?

Thank you bo3bber for your work! ;) Some time ago we talking about the impossibility of an unsymmetric shift of cameras in `nv3Dvision`. After I publish my system I already wanted to ask you about a possibility to make our own injector with my settings system but went research DirectX11.1 S3D sample and learning C++ after C# :shock: Only yesterday I saw this thread, read it, and already want to build iZ3D with my system. 8-) First we need to make it work with D3D11, from easier tasks to harder. What about hooking - I think the best method is to add *.exe to the iZ3D list and monitor when the *.exe process starts. This method avoids problems when games start from launchers, shortcuts, Steam, etc, and if no alien *.dll files in-game folder then lesser risk to be banned in online gaming. :D

I also made my system works with DirectX11.1 native stereoscopic but the interlaced method not reduced in half and as a result, performance and antialiasing look bad, it only useful for active output. Also, I found that DirectX11.1 native S3D interferes with `nv3Dvision` in fullscreen and block its settings except for toggle Key and begins stutter, it works fine alone in windowed mode as `nv3Dvision` works only in fullscreen(not good, and I think that this also was made for not to hook every running program). After switching to fullscreen mode and back, the fast toggle S3D shortcut Key of `nv3Dvision` becomes working even with native S3D in windowed mode but I don't found how to make the toggle work with native code options. And also in mono, it always shows only the left view. Setting the `DXGI_PRESENT_STEREO_TEMPORARY_MONO` and `DXGI_PRESENT_STEREO_PREFER_RIGHT` flags in the swap chain has no effect, need test without NV driver. Maybe someone used DirectX11.1 native S3D and can say do these options working or not at all?

Grant S
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Really enjoying getting reacquainted with the IZ3D driver. Games that are working well are running great. I can't get over how good Farcry 2 looks and performs. It was the same case with my IZ3D monitor. Not a particularly great game but I can't think of a better marriage. Like a tech demo of how perfect 3D can be. Other games working very well and IMO beat the other two solutions are ES Oblivion and Vampire Masquerade Bloodlines with the HD mod. Things that are not working at all here yet are snapshots no longer work. I haven't got a DX8 game to work yet, no error, just doesn't work. The one game mentioned in this thread that I have to report not working is Crysis. I get the "can't load output dll" in upper left regardless of what output I try, it works best for me in 3D with Tridef. looks wonderful, takes a real long time to load though and doesn't perform so well when there's a lot going on.
On my Win 10 machine I can only get Crysis to work with 3D vision and the fix manager so far.


Edit: I got a DX 8 game to play in IZ3D but I had to use DGvodoo Star Trek Bridge Commander. I got that game originally bundled with my first pair of e-dimensional glasses and dongle when I still had Win 98 lol.
I also tried IZ3D shutter mode with my projector and the eyes swapped every few seconds on any game I tried. I can see the problem with shutter glasses. SBS and interleaved working great
Last edited by Grant S on Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

Grant S
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

double

Vital
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Vital »

I also made a build with Unity default demo scene with `Post Processing Stack V2`:

7z - https://github.com/Vital-Volkov/Stereos ... ty_Demo.7z

or

zip - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cORanO ... sp=sharing

Post-process effects: Color Grading, Bloom, Motion Blur, Vignette, Ambient Occlusion, Depth Of Field, Temporal Anti-aliasing.
Run via `3DWE.exe` for `Fullscreen Windowed` mode with VSync or `3DWE.exe - Exclusive Fullscreen_noVSync` for `Exclusive Fullscreen` mode without VSync.

Key Controls:
`W,S,A,D` moving, `Q,E` down/up
`Tab` - hide/show Stereo3D settings panel
`*` On/Off S3D, `Ctrl + *` swap left-right cameras
`+,-` Field Of View, `Ctrl + `+,-`` custom `Virtual IPD` when unchecked `Match User IPD`
All above keys + `Left Shift` for faster changes
`Mouse` Look around
`Esc` exit

When launch, Monitor's Pixels Per Inch(PPI) will be autodetected and precision screen width will be calculated, as result - settings will be in real millimeters so you don't need to set PPI or Pixel Pitch manually, set it only if PPI incorrect. Set User IPD to your own interpupillary distance(IPD) for a realistic view with infinity S3D depth. Or set User IPD lower than your own IPD for close distance max depth(aquarium back wall effect). Uncheck Match user IPD and set Virtual IPD(Cameras IPD in the virtual world) larger than your own IPD for toy world effect and vise versa. With realistic IPD's Screen Distance will show how far from the screen your eyes should be(camera's point) where Real and Virtual FOV will match and you get a 100% realistic view. (Very important for Vehicle Simulators).
Last edited by Vital on Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Isaacvigo
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

Vital wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:29 am I also made a build with Unity default demo scene with `Post Processing Stack V2`.

https://github.com/Vital-Volkov/Stereos ... ty_Demo.7z

Post-process effects: Color Grading, Bloom, Motion Blur, Vignette, Ambient Occlusion, Depth Of Field, Temporal Anti-aliasing.
Run via `3DWE.exe` for `Fullscreen Windowed` mode with VSync or `3DWE.exe - Exclusive Fullscreen_noVSync` for `Exclusive Fullscreen` mode without VSync.

Key Controls:
`W,S,A,D` moving, `Q,E` down/up
`Tab` - hide/show Stereo3D settings panel
`*` On/Off S3D, `Ctrl + *` swap left-right cameras
`+,-` Field Of View, `Ctrl + `+,-`` custom `Virtual IPD` when unchecked `Match User IPD`
All above keys + `Left Shift` for faster changes
`Mouse` Look around
`Esc` exit

When launch, Monitor's Dots Per Inch(DPI) will be autodetected and precision Screen width will be calculated,
as result - settings will be in real millimeters so you don't need to set `DPI` or `Pixel Pitch` manually, set it only if `DPI` incorrect.
`Screen Distance` will show how far from the screen your eyes should be(camera's point) where Real and Virtual FOV will match and you get a 100% realistic view. (Very important for Vehicle Simulators).

Your system is very interesting for me, since I can't activate nvidia 3d on my new ips monitor.
I've been trying to change edids but it always recognizes me as crt and I can't get it to work.
What glasses would I need to be able to see my screen in 3d with that software?

Vital
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Vital »

Your system is very interesting for me, since I can't activate nvidia 3d on my new ips monitor.
I've been trying to change edids but it always recognizes me as crt and I can't get it to work.
What glasses would I need to be able to see my screen in 3d with that software?
I using polarized glasses but this depends on the monitor's output method, as I understand you have output only for shutter glasses. But If your monitor can get `Over/Under` or `Side By Side` as the input, then you can see my S3D demo.
I also have a Unity demo version with DirectX11.1 native Windows 8.1-10 S3D, which should detect your monitor and give the correct output method.
If you have these system requirements you can first check if the Microsoft S3D demo will work.
Requirements
In addition to the minimum supported operating systems being Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 R2, a WDDM 1.2 display driver must be installed on the computer, and the graphics hardware must support feature level 10 or higher.
https://github.com/microsoftarchive/msd ... D%20sample

If you can't build this sample then you can download it from my disk, I already build and tested it, but as it Windows Store App package, you need to unzip it, right-click on `Add-AppDevPackage.ps1` file and select `Run With PowerShell` and it will be installed, then you can run it via Start-Programs menu.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M1_0xh ... sp=sharing

Let me know if it working for you and what model of your monitor?

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Isaacvigo
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Which stereoscopic 3D solution do you primarily use?: S-3D desktop monitor

Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Isaacvigo »

Vital wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:15 am
Let me know if it working for you and what model of your monitor?
After installing the package and starting it, I see a red cube circling with a message that says that no 3d is running on the system.
I have tried activating nvidia 3d and without nvidia 3d.
The model of my monitor is MSI MAG274QRF-QD (27", Ips, 165HZ, hdr, 10p, 1ms g to g) .

Link.- MSI MAG274QRF-QD

Grant S
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

Greetings Vital, always great to see the next generation of coders take an interest in 3D. I tried your Unity demo and it looks very nice in 3D. My old 2012 LG 3DTV launched it in 3D without any issue in passive interlaced without me having to invoke 3D. Model# 60LM7200 UA

Vital
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Vital »

After installing the package and starting it, I see a red cube circling with a message that says that no 3d is running on the system.
I have tried activating nvidia 3d and without nvidia 3d.
The model of my monitor is MSI MAG274QRF-QD (27", Ips, 165HZ, hdr, 10p, 1ms g to g) .
Sure, for Direct 11.1 S3D to work S3D driver output must be enabled, without Nvidia:
Image
Or with Nvidia S3D enabled via their checkbox `Enable stereoscopic 3D`, but DirectX 11.1 Demo using their own settings and ignoring Nvidia's settings except for fast toggle S3D key after fullscreen mode hook.

Looks like your monitor does not support S3D - https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/8db2223c

So you get an Nvidia S3D menu via EDID override but a pyramid with shutter glasses not working?
Anyway you can view the S3D Unity demo using red/cyan anaglyph glasses :woot
Greetings Vital, always great to see the next generation of coders take an interest in 3D. I tried your Unity demo and it looks very nice in 3D. My old 2012 LG 3DTV launched it in 3D without any issue in passive interlaced without me having to invoke 3D. Model# 60LM7200 UA
Glad you can see the Unity S3D demo, good TV(I want LG OLED 4K S3D :) ). Did PPI was correct detected in the Demo about 37 pixels per inch? And did you set your `User IPD`?
Also, you can see an awesome performance without `Vsync` launching via the `3DWE.exe - Exclusive Fullscreen_noVSync` shortcut. With Core2Duo E8400 & GTX660 I have 108fps in mono(press `*` Numpad key), 100fps in stereo, but Nvidia with their `Optimized For GeForce` gives only 56fps because it's not optimized. :D Also, Nvidia S3D eats fps(about 4%) even when it not using, so disable it via the `Enable stereoscopic 3D` checkbox for best performance.

Start Unity S3D demo, uncheck `Match User IPD` and move `Virtual IPD` slider full right to 1000mm(1-meter stereo base), move back(`S` key) and you will see a nice `Toy` scene like via Stereoscopic Rangefinder in real life on the image :shock: :
Image

Grant S
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Grant S »

No for pixels per inch, starts set @ 96". I always have a habit of making sure NV3D is off when I'm not using because I use it for VR and Tridef too.

User IPD. Inner pupillary distance? In 3D seems to be a convergence setting. Yes I also tried virtual IPD. One thing I noticed that I didn't the first time is that I had to flip the glasses over because it was inverted

Vital
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Vital »

No for pixels per inch, starts set @ 96". I always have a habit of making sure NV3D is off when I'm not using because I use it for VR and Tridef too.
This is why I leave `PPI` and `Pixel Pitch` fields on the settings panel, PPI must be getting from the PC system data of the monitor but seems not possible for all screens, 96 is the default.
Correct PPI needs for precision calculate viewport width(screen width if it is fullscreen) for precision shift center of image projections according to `User IPD` in real millimeters. So for correct realistic S3D, you just need to set the real `PPI` or `Pixel Pitch` of your screen(see tech specs). And set your real IPD(Interpupillary Distance) to `User IPD`. Sure, you can set `User IPD` lower than your real IPD (but important not to set it larger) and get unrealistic max depth(close distance wall(aquarium effect) instead of infinity depth like in real life). Sure in-game needs to make save user settings and save-load presets for different users.
User IPD. Inner pupillary distance? In 3D seems to be a convergence setting. Yes I also tried virtual IPD. One thing I noticed that I didn't the first time is that I had to flip the glasses over because it was inverted
Yep, `User IPD` is the real Interpupillary Distance of the user who using S3D now(but don't forget to set the correct PPI for the screen). Forget about `convergence`, this is a mistake in `S3D` and the reason for problems with S3D settings.
Polarized row orders of a screen per eye or glasses may be different or when switch to windowed mode shifts the image to odd numbers of rows cause swapped of left-right view, so I made a shortcut key for this `Ctrl + *`, also checkbox on the settings panel.

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