iZ3D in 2020

bo3bber
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iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

As you may have heard here: viewtopic.php?p=174141#p174141

The old driver iZ3D has made their source code available to us! Let's use this thread to talk about it, and any development questions.


We can build on this solid foundation and see where it takes us in 3D land. Keep in mind that the code is pretty old, from 2011, which was the last version they shipped. That means it has good DX9 support, but just barely got to see the start of DX11.

I'll be adding the code to a Github repo so that other people can contribute.


You can find the last version that they shipped here: http://bo3b.net/iZ3DDriverSetup_1_13%285443%29.exe

I confess to not knowing very much about iZ3D, I didn't use it much and don't know how it operates. I have no idea if it works on Win10. I don't know how their game profiles work. Their forums and website are long dead, but there are some scraps in the waybackmachine.


For people who might want to contribute- can you use that installer and see if it still works? Experiment with it and find out what state it seems to be with current drivers, and OS. People who had experience with it before can be a valuable resource since the internet info is gone.

I think it should work fine on Win 7, but also am unsure about it's output abilities. Please experiment and fill in some gaps.

bo3bber
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

BTW: I think this is the complete game list they supported as of their final 1.13 version. However, I pulled this out of a waybackmachine archived page, and it doesn't match the base profiles included in the source, so... we are just learning. If someone has a better reference list that would be interesting.
  • #
    3D Mark 2009
    3D Mark Vantage
    A
    A.R.E.S
    AaaaaA! - A Reckless Disregard for
    Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures
    Aion: The Tower of Eternity
    Alien Breed 2: Assault
    Alien Swarm
    Aliens vs. Predator (2010)
    Aquanox 2
    ArmA: Armed Assault
    ArmA: Queen’s Gambit
    Armies of Exigo
    Assassin's Creed
    Assassin's Creed 2
    Audiosurf
    Avatar (Native Support)
    B
    Ballance
    Batman Arkham Asylum
    Battlefield 2
    Battlefield 2 Special Forces
    Battlefield 2142
    Battlefield: Bad Company 2
    Battleground Europe
    Battlestations Pacific
    Beowulf
    Bet on Soldier (B.o.S.)
    Bionic Commando
    Bionic Commando: Rearmed
    BioShock
    BioShock 2
    Black & White 2
    BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger
    Borderlands
    Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood
    Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway
    Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30
    Burnout Paradise
    C
    Cabela's Big Game Hunter
    Call of Duty 2
    Call of Duty: Black Ops
    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
    Call of Duty: World at War
    Call of Juarez – Bound in Blood
    Cars Demo (Pixar-Disney)
    Champions Online
    Chromadrome 2
    Civilization IV
    Colin McRae: DiRT
    Colin McRae: DiRT 2
    Command & Conquer 4: Tiberian Twili
    Command & Conquer III: Kane's Wrath
    Command & Conquer III: Tiberium War
    Command & Conquer: Generals
    Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3
    Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 - Up
    Command & Conquer: Renegade
    Company of Heroes
    Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor
    Condemned: Criminal Origins
    Counter Strike: Source
    Cryostasis
    Crysis
    Crysis: Warhead
    D
    Damnation
    Dark Age of Camelot
    Dark Messiah Might & Magic
    Dark Void
    Darkfall online
    Day of Defeat: Source
    DC Universe Online
    De Blob
    Dead Rising 2
    Dead Space
    Dead Space 2
    Defense Grid – The Awakening
    Delta Force: Xtreme
    Demigod
    Devil May Cry 3
    Devil May Cry 4
    Disciples 3: Renaissance
    Divinity 2: Ego Draconis
    Dragon Age: Origins
    Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening
    Drakensang
    DSC: Black Shark
    Dungeon Siege 3
    Dungeon Siege II
    Dungeons
    Dungeons and Dragons Online
    E
    Empire Earth II
    Empire Total War
    Enemy Engaged 2
    Entropia
    Eragon
    EVE Online
    EVE Online Apocrypha
    EVE Online Tyrannis
    EverQuest
    EverQuest 2
    EverQuest 2. Echoes of Faydwer
    EverQuest 2: Desert of Flames
    EverQuest 2: Gathering Tempest
    EverQuest 2: Rise of Kunark
    EverQuest 2: Sentinel's Fate
    EverQuest 2: The Bloodline Chronicl
    EverQuest 2: The Shadow Odyssey
    Evolution GT
    F
    F.E.A.R.
    F.E.A.R. 2: Project Origin
    F.E.A.R. 2: Reborn
    F.E.A.R. Extraction Point
    F.E.A.R. Perseus Mandate
    Fable II
    Fable: The Lost Chapters
    Fahrenheit
    Fallout 3
    Fallout 3: Broken Steel
    Fallout 3: Mothership Zeta
    Fallout 3: Operation Anchorage
    Fallout 3: Point lookout
    Fallout 3: The Pitt
    Far Cry
    Far Cry 2
    Fate
    FIFA 10
    Final Fantasy 14
    FlatOut
    FlatOut 2
    FlatOut: Head On
    FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage
    Foreign Legion
    Freelancer
    Front Mission Evolved
    Fuel
    G
    G.R.I.D
    Galactic Civilizations
    Gears of War 2
    Ghost Recon 1
    Ghostbusters
    Grand Prix 4
    Grand Theft Auto 4
    Grand Theft Auto 4: Episodes from L
    Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
    GTR
    GTR 2
    GTR Evolutions
    GTR Legends
    Guild Wars
    Guild Wars 2
    Guild Wars: Eye of the North
    Guild Wars: Factions
    Guild Wars: Nightfall
    Guitar Hero 3
    H
    Half Life 2
    Half Life 2: Episode one
    Half Life 2: Episode two
    Half Life 2: Lost Coast
    HALO
    HALO 2 (Vista Only)
    Harry Potter and the Order of the P
    Hellgate: London
    Heroes of Might and Magic V
    Hitman: Blood Money
    Hunted: Demon’s Forge
    I
    Infernal
    J
    Jade Empire
    K
    Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days
    Killing Floor
    King Arthur: The Druids
    King's Bounty: Armored Princess
    King’s Bounty
    L
    Lara Croft and the Guardians of Lig
    League of Legends
    Left 4 Dead
    Left 4 Dead 2
    Left 4 Dead 2: The Passing
    Lego Batman
    Lego Star Wars
    Lineage 2: Oath of Blood
    Lineage 2: The Chaotic Chronicle (1
    Lineage 2: The Chaotic Throne - Gra
    Lineage 2: The Chaotic Throne - Int
    Live For Speed
    Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2
    Lord of the Rings Online Shadows of
    Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middl
    Lord of the Rings: Conquest
    Lord of the Rings: Return of the Ki
    Lost Planet 2
    Lost Planet: Extreme Condition
    M
    Maden NFL 09
    Mafia II
    Majesty 2
    Manhunt
    Mass Effect
    Mass Effect 2
    Medal of Honor
    Medal of Honor: Airborne
    Medieval Total War
    Mega Man X 7
    Mega Man X 8
    Men of Valor
    Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
    Metal Gear Solid
    Metro 2033
    Micro Machines 4
    Microsoft Flight Simulator X
    Mini Ninjas
    Minigolf Adventures
    Mirror's Edge
    Monday Night Combat
    Monster Hunter Frontier
    Moto GP 2007
    Mount & Blade
    Mount & Blade: Warband
    MTX Moto Trax
    Mx Vs. ATV Unleashed
    N
    Nail'd
    NBA 2005
    NBA 2006
    NBA 2010
    Necrovision
    Necrovision: Lost Company
    Need for Speed: Carbon
    Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit
    Need for Speed: Most Wanted
    Need for Speed: Shift
    Need for Speed: Underground 2
    Neverwinter Nights 2
    Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the B
    Neverwinter Nights 2: Mysteries of
    Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehi
    NHL 2005
    NHL 2006
    Ninja Blade
    O
    Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising
    Outrun 2006
    Overlord
    Overlord 2
    P
    Painkiller
    Painkiller: Black
    Painkiller: Resurrection
    Perfect World
    Phoenix RC Sim
    Pirates of the Burning Sea
    Poker Night at the Inventory
    Portal
    Prince of Persia 2008
    Prince of Persia: The Forgotten San
    Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
    Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
    Prince of Persia: The Warrior Withi
    ProtoGalaxy
    Prototype
    Psychonauts
    PURE
    Pyroblazer
    Q
    Quake 3
    Quantum of Solace
    Quantz
    R
    R.U.S.E
    RaceDriver Grid
    Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
    Rainbow Six Vegas
    Rainbow Six Vegas 2
    Red Faction: Guerilla
    Red Orchestra
    REFLEX XTR Model Flight Simulator
    Resident Evil 4
    Resident Evil 5
    rFactor
    Richard Burns Rally
    Rise and Fall
    Risen
    Rogue Trooper
    Roller Coaster Tycoon 3
    Ruby: Whiteout
    Ryzom
    S
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl
    Sacred 2
    Saints Row 2
    Sam and Max Season 3
    Savage 2
    Section 8
    Serious Sam HD
    Serious Sam II
    Shadowgrounds
    Shadowgrounds: Survivor
    Sherlock Holmes versus Jack the Rip
    Sid Meier's Railroads
    Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atla
    Sims 2
    Sims 3
    SiN 2: Episodes
    Singles 2
    Singularity
    Sins of the Solar Empire
    Sniper Elite
    Sonic Adventure DX
    Space Strike
    Spell Force 2 Shadow Wars
    Spider-Man 3
    Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
    Splinter Cell Double Agent
    Split/Second
    SPORE
    Star Raiders
    Star Trek D.A.C.
    Star Trek: Legacy
    Star Wars: BattleFront I
    Star Wars: BattleFront II
    Star Wars: Force Unleashed
    Star Wars: Force Unleashed 2
    Star Wars: Galaxies
    Starship Troopers
    Street Fighter 4
    Super Street Fighter IV
    Supreme Commander
    Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance
    SWAT 4
    T
    Team Fortress 2
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
    Terminator Salvation
    Test Driver Unlimited
    The Ball
    The Club
    The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
    The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isl
    The Maw
    The Movies
    The Settlers II 10th Anniversary
    The Thing
    The Void
    The Witcher
    The Witcher 2: Assassin of Kings
    There
    Thief 3 – Deadly Shadows
    Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
    Timeshift
    Titan Quest
    Titan Quest: Immortal Throne
    Tom Clancy’s HAWX
    Tomb Raider: Anniversary
    Tomb Raider: Legend
    Tomb Raider: Underworld
    Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3
    Torchlight
    Trackmania Nations
    Trainz Railroad Simulator
    Transformers: War of the Cybertron
    Trine
    Tropico 3
    Turok (2008)
    Two Worlds
    U
    Unity3D Engine Games
    Unreal Tournament 2004
    Unreal Tournament III
    V
    Virtua Tennis 2009
    W
    Wallace and Gromit
    Wanted: Weapons of Fate
    Warcraft III
    Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
    Warhammer 40k Dark Crusade
    Warhammer 40k Dawn of War
    Warhammer 40k Dawn of War 2
    Warhammer 40k Dawn of War 2 - Chaos
    Warhammer 40k Dawn of War 2 - Retri
    Warhammer 40k Soulstorm
    Warhammer 40k Winter Assault
    Warhammer Online
    Watchmen: The End is Nigh
    Windows Vista Chess
    Wings of Prey
    Wizard101
    Wolfenstein
    World in Conflict
    World of Tank
    World of Warcraft
    World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade
    World of Warcraft: Cataclysm (Beta)
    World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lic
    World Racing (Mercedes Benz)
    WRC 2010
    X
    X-Blades
    X-Men Origins: Wolverine
    XIII
    Z
    Zeno Clash

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skyrimer
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by skyrimer »

I'll install it and give it a look.
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RAGEdemon
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Thanks Bo3b.

The counted number of games in the dropdown list is 280+, not including additional user tested games. The list above seems to be extensive, however not complete; e.g. Portal 2 appears in the dropdown however is not listed above.

The worked on outputs are:
Image

The supported outputs as per dropdown, are:
Image

I note the [Trial] next to a lot of outputs. Perhaps our first objective might be to unlock all modes so people can test with their various setups.

Installation on Win10 2004 went smoothly.
I tried firing up Portal 2 (DX9), however I could not get it to engage in Anaglyph mode, nor shutter mode.

The change log [attached] is a pretty interesting read as it shows what was being worked on till the end.

=========================
Update
=========================

There is a help tab on the driver's main interface. It has a dynamic and a static test.

Static test = a static stereo image. Does not stereorise for me.

Dynamic test = I remember this being the iZ3D logo in a fully rendered 3D-game type environment. This also does not work for me - the window does not appear on desktop however it does show on the taskbar.

Perhaps a starting convergence point (no pun intended) would be for us to make both the static and dynamic tests work in anaglyph mode...

Image

Also [attached] Problems and Solutions pdf.

============
Trial reset:
============

I think iZ3D released a tool to allow trial resetting just before they closed. I'm sure some people will still have that tool - it would be cool if they uploaded and shared it.

A workaround for trial resetting was:
What I do is to delete a folder in "c:\Program Data" that looks like a random name. Something like "Fmdfzxl" or similar. In there there is only one file with the extension ".li5"

Then you must run regedit and search for "msdaipp". You'll find a key with that name. It has a subkey named "Providers". There you'll find one or more keys that are GUID names (those long series of numbers and letters). Delete them.

From this point you should have 30 more days left of trial. You'll have to do it again every month, so don't forget the steps.
I can't find these files nor registry keys on Windows 10 however, but the workaround is reported as working.

==========
3D Vision
==========

If I recall, there was a way to get iZ3D working with 3D Vision gasses by opening up the 3D Vision viewer before starting a game.
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Edit: Clarity | Windows 10 64-Bit | 7700K @ 5.1GHz | 2080 Ti OC | 32GB 3956MHz CL16 RAM | Optane PCIe SSD | Sound Blaster ZxR | 2x 2000W ButtKicker LFE | nVidia 3D Vision | 3D Projector @ DSR 1600p | Oculus Rift CV1

bo3bber
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

OK, promising at least in that it doesn't crash right off the bat. That's pretty good for 10 year old software running on an OS it never expected.

Anaglyph mode is probably the simplest and most likely to get working, because it doesn't require any drivers or other tricky hardware.


If someone can test on Win7, that will also be a helpful piece of information. It might also be worth using an older driver like 425.31 or even older.

It might also be interesting to try it on your embedded Intel GPU's- it's supposed to work for them as well.

There is value in getting this last gen working on Win10, because some games are fixed in their list that we've never fixed, like original Crysis.


If you all can work out how to avoid the Trial aspect of the software that can help. I won't be able to fix that in code for awhile, because we won't be able to build the software until I can work out how to restore the hooking functionality. I'll look for the Trial activation in the code and see if there is some simpler workaround.

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Guig2000
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

I still have it in my archives.
http://91.160.36.85:51987/share/C3T5CAb ... Archive.7z
this temporary link contains 12 iZ3D driver versions, from 1.09 to 1.13 + a trialreset software + some usermanuals, baseprofile.xml, + the iz3d api and some other stuff.
Laser Sight.7z
The driver is totally incompatible with windows 10 and can run on windows 7 at the price of disabling one of the shutter output ( can't remamber wich one exactly, it use some kind of kernel level trick to make software page flipping more or less working ).
It is also compatible with D3D8 games.
Globaly it was maybe a bit better if there is no profile for a game, but profile was not so effective that the modern community fixes for 3D vision. Also it was faster than tridef. Apparently IZ3D was inject code into the games in real time, so anti-virus tend to not like it neither anti-cheat software.
There is indeed a trial reset hack provided by some users, that of course your anti-virus will not like, but it works.

Profiles are stored in xml files, so anyrybody can modify them if he knows what he do. It allows to select options for entire games or on shaders/textures/meshrs by crc.

From iZ3D user manual:
6. Appendix
Warning! Appendix is a list of commands and keys that should be used only by advanced
users. These commands can change various driver’s functions, but, if used without caution,
may lead to software mistakes, resulting in necessity to reinstall the driver.
NOTE!
IZ3D Wizard is programmed to start automatically in any game. If you don't
want to see it in every new game uncheck “show wizard” checkbox in “Game”
subsection of Control Center.
NOTE!
! Users can exchange their best settings by giving each other the “UserProfile”
file or part of it.
Be careful with editing the Profile – XML structure is very sensitive to typos.
User can edit only the UserProfile, not BaseProfile
23
Config file structure
Vendor – Describe vendor name by id.
Sample: <Vendor Name="ATI" Value="1002" />
For majority flags default value equal 0.
Root key Config
Key GlobalSettings
RunAtStartup – inject D3D driver at service startup. Default value = 1
OGLRunAtStartup – inject OpenGL QB driver at service startup.
EmulateQB – emulate OpenGL QB
LockCursor – automatic lock cursor at Control Center startup
StereoSeparation – default separation value for new opened applications
OutputMethodDll – name of output method dll
OutputMode – mode of output dll
Key DefaultProfile.
See profile section below.
Profile information structure:
Root key Profiles
Key Profile
File (attributes: Name – filename, CmdLine – part of cmdline)
EnableStereo – enable stereo at game startup
RouterType
0 – General method
1 – Special injection method (for anti-cheating software)
2 – Disable driver
DeviceMode
0 – Multihead mode (Fullscreen)
1 – Dual Windowed mode (Windowed)
2 – Application selected mode (disabled second window)
3 – Auto detection at program startup
ShowFPS – show game FPS
ShowOSD – show values of separation and convergence when they changes
ForceVSyncOff – force disabling VSync
WideRenderTarget - Flag minimizes frequency of SetRenderTarget() and Set
DepthStencilSurface() calls. This dramatically speeds up most of games on nVida
cards and on ATI cards when antialising is enabled.
EnableAA – enable antialising
UseWrapper (deprecated key) – use D3D9 wrapper
24
MonoRenderTargetTextures – create all render target textures in mono
MonoRenderTargetSurfaces – create all render target surfaces in mono
MonoDepthStencilTextures – create all depth/stencil textures in mono (on
NVidia support depth stencil textures may contain bugs)
MonoDepthStencilSurfaces – create all depth/stencil surfaces in mono
DontCheckShadowMatrix – set if anything render in mono when they needn't
GlobalMultiplier – global separation multiplier
SearchFrameSizeX (default 512) – frame size autofocus
FrameYCoordinate (default 0.495) – frame line for autofocus
For fixing HUD and other object that must be in mono:
CreateSquareRTInMono – do all render target textures that have square size
in mono
CreateRTThatLessThanBBInMono – do all render target textures that have size
less than backbuffer in mono
MonoFixedPipeline – do all fixed pipeline in mono
MonoRHWPipeline – do all RHW pipeline in mono
RenderNonMatrixShadersInMono – do all vertex shaders that doesn’t contain
projection matrix in mono
RenderIncorrectProjectionShadersInMono – do all vertex shaders that doesn’t
correct write vertex position in mono
RenderInMonoForIndentityVWMatrices – do Draw calls mono when used iden
tity view and world matrices
RenderFullscreenQuadInMono – render fullscreen quad in mono
RenderToRightInMono – for fixing artifacts when game start in mono and then
switch to stereo
CreateOneComponentRTInMono – create R32F render target textures in mono,
can fix shadows in some games
DontCreateRightTextureInWideMode – reduce amount of video memory needed
for WideRenderTarget mode but decrease performance
SeparationMode – this will define game crosshair position
0 – camera shifted in both eyes
1 – camera shifted only in left eyes
2 – camera shifted only in right eyes
OblivionMonoMatrixCheck – special key for Oblivion
25
SearchFrameSizeY - vertical size of search area (make auto-convergence more
stable, but slower)
m_ShiftSpeed – speed of auto-convergence
ScreenshotType – chooses type of stereo screenshots save format
0 – JPG
1 – PNG
2 – BMP
3 – DDS
Key Multiplier - for all object inside set indicated multiplier
VertexShader
CRC - CRC32 of VS
Size – Size of VS
ZNear – z before that object all render in mono
Texture
CRC - CRC32 of Texture
Size – Size of Texture
Mesh
CRC - CRC32 of mesh
Size – Size of mesh
Key Mono – as Multiplier Value =”0.0”
Key Stereo – as Multiplier Value =”1.0”
Anaglyph custom colors:
<AnaglyphOutput>
<CustomLeftMatrix
m00="1" m01="0" m02="0"
m10="0" m11="0" m12="0"
m20="0" m21="0" m22="0"/>
<CustomRightMatrix
m00="0" m01="0" m02="0"
m10="0" m11="1" m12="0"
m20="0" m21="0" m22="1"/>
</AnaglyphOutput>
final color would be: CustomLeftMatrix*CL + CustomRightMatrix*CR
Key Keys
ToggleStereo – key that toggle stereo
ZPSIncrease – increase convergence
ZPSDecrease – decrease convergence
StereoBaseIncrease – increase separation
StereoBaseDecrease – decrease separation
SetPreset1 – set current preset #1
SetPreset2 – set current preset #2
SetPreset3 – set current preset #3
SwapEyes – swap left/right eyes
ToggleAutoFocus – toggle autofocus
26
For example:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<Profiles Version="1">
...
<Profile Name="Half Life 2">
<File Name="hl2.exe" />
<SeparationMode Value="1" />
<Presets>...</Presets>
</Profile>
</Profiles>
Appendix 2
Marking Spec Structure (for S3D Shutter output)
Location: C:\Documents and settings\All users\Application data\iZ3D driver (default)
File name: MarkingSpec.xml
Key
NumberOfMarkedLines – number of on-screen lines
Possible values: from 1 to 2048 (there is no sense to set it higher than height of the
screen)
Default value: 3
NumberOfMarks – number of marks in every line
Possible values: from 1 to any integral number
Default value: 16
InverseAxisYDirection - changes lines position on screen
Possible values: 0 (disable), 1 (enable)
Default value: 0
ScaleToFrame – toggles scale factor
Possible values: 0 (disable), 1 (enable)
Default value: 1
ScaleFactor – set width of line in % of width of the screen
Possible values: form 0.1 to 1.0
Default value: 0.9
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Image

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RAGEdemon
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Thank you very much for the links and information Guig2000. The documentation and the trial reset / instructions will be very valuable I am sure!

Once your temporary links go down, we can host them on Dropbox/Google Drive.

============
Performance:
============

Neil did a comparison in 2010 against Trifef DDD and nVidia's driver at the time (thanks Neil!)
https://www.mtbs3d.com/articles/editori ... vidia.html

I was specifically interested in CPU bottlenecked performance i.e. which would manifest at low resolutions:

Image

Image

It can be seen that iZ3D driver efficiency is 68% compared to 2D.

Note:
The charts show 3DVision efficiency as ~60% in 2010. Modern nVidia 3DVision efficiency is actually about 50% and below, depending on how badly the CPU bug manifests itself.

It remains to be seen how CPU performance will be affected by iZ3D today, however the above data looks encouraging.

The same article shows that 3DV wins at GPU limited scenarios - one can always throw more GPU power at Stereo3D, which scales perfectly every generation - but CPU power will always be limited due to the nature of threading.
Edit: Clarity | Windows 10 64-Bit | 7700K @ 5.1GHz | 2080 Ti OC | 32GB 3956MHz CL16 RAM | Optane PCIe SSD | Sound Blaster ZxR | 2x 2000W ButtKicker LFE | nVidia 3D Vision | 3D Projector @ DSR 1600p | Oculus Rift CV1

bo3bber
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

Guig2000 wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:31 pm I still have it in my archives.
http://91.160.36.85:51987/share/C3T5CAb ... Archive.7z
this temporary link contains 12 iZ3D driver versions, from 1.09 to 1.13 + a trialreset software + some usermanuals, baseprofile.xml, + the iz3d api and some other stuff.
Laser Sight.7z
The driver is totally incompatible with windows 10 and can run on windows 7 at the price of disabling one of the shutter output ( can't remamber wich one exactly, it use some kind of kernel level trick to make software page flipping more or less working ).
It is also compatible with D3D8 games.
Globaly it was maybe a bit better if there is no profile for a game, but profile was not so effective that the modern community fixes for 3D vision. Also it was faster than tridef. Apparently IZ3D was inject code into the games in real time, so anti-virus tend to not like it neither anti-cheat software.
There is indeed a trial reset hack provided by some users, that of course your anti-virus will not like, but it works.

Profiles are stored in xml files, so anyrybody can modify them if he knows what he do. It allows to select options for entire games or on shaders/textures/meshrs by crc.
Awesome! Thanks for these resources, this will be very helpful. I can host this file indefinitely on my server if you like.

The user guide pdf was very helpful for me to understand how it works and what it's trying to do. This level of documentation is not found in the code itself.


Any idea why it doesn't work on Win10 at present? Any diagnostics, error logs, or other information.

I need other people to dig into it's current state, because I've got too many other things to look at at present. Thanks in advance.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Diagnostics from the driver control panel (doesn't look too useful):
--------------------
System Information
---------------------

Time of this report: Mon Oct 12 18:42:40 2020

iZ3D Driver Version: 1.13.5443
OS Extended Long String (Localized): Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (6.2, Build 9200) (19041.vb_release.191206-1406)
OS Version: 6.2.9200.2
System type: 64-bit
DirectX Version Long String (English): DirectX 12
DirectX Version: 12.0
Physical Memory: 32768(Mb)
Used PageFile: 21142(Mb)
Available PageFile: 16420(Mb)
Direct3D8 Debug Runtime Available: 0
Direct3D Debug Runtime Running: 0
Direct3D Debug Level: 0
Windows Directory: C:\WINDOWS
BuildLab: 19041.vb_release.191206-1406
DxDiag Version: 6.02.19041.0546
Processor String (English): Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700K CPU @ 4.20GHz (8 CPUs), ~4.2GHz
System Manufacturer String (English): System manufacturer
System Model String (English): System Product Name
BIOS String (English): 1203
Physical Memory String (English): 32768MB RAM
DirectX Version String (English):
PageFile String (Localized): 21142MB used, 16420MB available
MachineName (English): SHAHZAD-PC
Languages String (English): English (Regional Setting: English)
PageFile String (English): 21142MB used, 16420MB available
Time String (English): 10/12/2020, 19:42:39

--------------------
Display Information
---------------------

Display adapter: 0
Device name: \\.\DISPLAY1
Description: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti
Key device ID: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1E07&SUBSYS_37101462&REV_A1
Key device key: \Registry\Machine\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{579F41CE-042D-11EB-94F3-2C4D5468543D}\0000
Manufacturer: NVIDIA(Mb)
Chip type: GeForce RTX 2080 Ti(Mb)
DACType: Integrated RAMDAC(Mb)
Revision: Unknown
DisplayMemory (English): 4095 MB
DisplayMode (English): 1280 x 800 (32 bit) (120Hz)
Screen width: 1280
Screen height: 800
Bits per pixel: 32
Refresh rate: 120
Monitor name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor maximum resolution: Unknown
Driver name: C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_b2dd7130a686a22f\nvldumdx.dll,C:\
Driver version: 27.21.0014.5206
Driver attributes: Final Retail
DriverLanguage (English): English
DriverDate (English): 12 August 2020 1:00:00 AM
Adapter: 0
VendorId: 0x10DE
DeviceId: 0x1E07
Attached Monitor DeviceId: MONITOR\VSC2725\{4d36e96e-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0003
Attached Monitor Model: VSC2725
Monitor display area size: 0cm x 0cm (diag 0")
DS texture format D16: supported
DS texture format D16 LOCKABLE: unsupported
DS texture format D24S8: supported
DS texture format D24X8: supported
DS texture format ATI DF16: unsupported
DS texture format ATI DF24: unsupported
DS texture format NVidia INTZ: supported
DS texture format NVidia RAWZ: unsupported
Surface format ATI AQBS: unsupported
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

bo3bber wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:23 am
Any idea why it doesn't work on Win10 at present? Any diagnostics, error logs, or other information.

I need other people to dig into it's current state, because I've got too many other things to look at at present. Thanks in advance.
It never worked and if I remember correctly, on early win10 versions, I got bsod on windows load if I tried to use iZ3D, or maybe it's just that it does not hook.
The only way to know, is to try again...


This gives me a lot some questions:
+What about intellectual propriety?
In 2012, on the verge of banckrupcy, iZ3D shareolders, tried to get 800K$ in exchange of "giving" the code to as free open source.
It's a dev who gave the code, no? does he have legally the right to do it? someone or some entity may still own intellectual property on this code!

+does he gave the driver code source naked or it also include some tools? They claimed lately to have created a tool that auto-detects 3D artifacts in order to make better game profiles.

+They claimed also that 1.13 was the last 1.x revision and that they was working on a 2.0 driver that should have include a lot of improvements.
does the given code include that?

+iZ3D driver will not replace a quad buffer. Quad buffer still exist on AMD graphics cards, but on nvidia side, if we want a proper frame sequential output or a frame-packed output, a 3Dvision hack will still be needed in order to have a quad bufer. Maybe the way is open source graphics driver on Linux.


Edit: don't attempt that a game that have an iZ3D official profile is always perfectly fixed, it depends on games.
Image

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Marin3D »

Bo3bber,

I revived and old laptop with windows 7 64bit & nvidia gt 540. The test image works with the latest iz3d driver, send it side by side to my TV and 120hz monitor anaglyph. Only works with the test image mode. I'm trying to figure out why the test app crashes, i tried compatibility mode, etc. the usual tricks.

Will post more modes once i get them working, the trial reset worked too after a bit of OCX fiddling.

I only have a 3D TV, a 3D vision setup and a quest, any specific things that would help in trying out?

I found Batman - Arkham Asylum in my collection box, I will give that a try.

Cheers!

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Guig2000 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:59 pm +What about intellectual propriety?
In 2012, on the verge of banckrupcy, iZ3D shareolders, tried to get 800K$ in exchange of "giving" the code to as free open source.
It's a dev who gave the code, no? does he have legally the right to do it? someone or some entity may still own intellectual property on this code!
I can attempt to answer this part to the best of my knowledge.

The code was given at a direct request from the CEO to a number of iZ3D developers. One of them replied with the upload in the shared open channel without objections. The CEO then kindly gave us his blessing by wishing us luck. The iZ3D developer also kindly shared his GitHub ID in case of questions from our developers.

To the best of our knowledge, the community has obtained the source code in good faith, and there is no reasonable cause to believe that what we have done or are going to do, is anything wrong by modifying and building upon it.

I am not an expert in the intricacies of IP law in different world jurisdictions; we might need a professional IP Lawyer's insight/interpretation to be sure - if there are any out here; however to the best of my humble knowledge, I don't believe we have anything to worry about.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

Guig2000 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:59 pmThis gives me a lot some questions:
+What about intellectual propriety?
In 2012, on the verge of banckrupcy, iZ3D shareolders, tried to get 800K$ in exchange of "giving" the code to as free open source.
It's a dev who gave the code, no? does he have legally the right to do it? someone or some entity may still own intellectual property on this code!
We have sign-off from the CEO of the company, so I think this will be fine. It barely had commercial value in 2011, and nowadays any shareholder would be wasting their time to try to monetize it.

In any case, if you ever ask a lawyer in advance the answer is always no- so we aren't going to ask. If there is some problem later on, they can send a cease&desist and we'll just take it down and stop shipping it.

There isn't anything here that we couldn't write on our own, this is just valuable to us because it can cut the development time dramatically. It's already been fully debugged, which is hugely, hugely valuable to us.

+does he gave the driver code source naked or it also include some tools? They claimed lately to have created a tool that auto-detects 3D artifacts in order to make better game profiles.
There are tools in the repo that look to do some image analysis and some memory leak testing. There is no documentation to speak of in the code, no architectural or how-to-use docs, so I'll likely ping the dev for basic info after I have it running.

+They claimed also that 1.13 was the last 1.x revision and that they was working on a 2.0 driver that should have include a lot of improvements.
does the given code include that?
Not that I can see. The code base has the control panel version as 1.13, which matches the last known driver.

+iZ3D driver will not replace a quad buffer. Quad buffer still exist on AMD graphics cards, but on nvidia side, if we want a proper frame sequential output or a frame-packed output, a 3Dvision hack will still be needed in order to have a quad bufer. Maybe the way is open source graphics driver on Linux.
That will be no problem to add. I can easily add an output method using 3D Vision Direct mode, which will then work on all 3D Vision hardware. Of course that will be tied to current drivers as well.

We can likely bypass the 3D Vision requirement on the hardware itself. We can drive the pyramid transmitter with an external driver as was found out years ago: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~zwood/tea ... 1/rsomers/ https://github.com/bobsomers/3dvgl

The only part we don't know is how to switch the monitor into 3D Vision mode, which we can also hack up something to mimic current commands. Non-trivial to figure out, but doable. Anything working with industry standards like frame-sequential projectors will work fairly easily.

I'll will also add HelixVision support of course, so anything working here can be on the big VR screen directly.

I should be able to create a Github repo in the next day or so.

Marin3D wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:17 pmWill post more modes once i get them working, the trial reset worked too after a bit of OCX fiddling.

I only have a 3D TV, a 3D vision setup and a quest, any specific things that would help in trying out?

I found Batman - Arkham Asylum in my collection box, I will give that a try.
Any and all tests are helpful I think. I'd like to get a rough idea of where it stood before it was canceled, and how well it was working. That can give me a better feel for what to focus on first.

If you can get the demo working properly, then trying supported games would be a good logical step.

I don't think adding in the complexity of a the VR runtimes will help that much, if you can get it into SBS mode, that will work in Virtual Desktop. But it's more a question of getting it to run, and what games might still work.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Necropants »

This is such and awesome "happening" for us regardless of outcome. Thanks alot Rage and Bo3bber. (and the iZ3D guys of course)
Btw bought a copy of Helixvision the other night, just to show support since I do not have a VR headset... yet.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by helifax »

Hi,

Pardon my scepticism, but how is this going to help us in any way or form?

Sure, we can write our own Stereo3D driver, as I have done for both OpenGL and Vulkan. Sure, we can go all the way in and spend a lot of time and do things "by the book" (duplicating all the draw calls and resources, etc).
This, however, doesn't solve the biggest issue : INTERFACING with the 3D Vision Monitor, Glasses & Emitter (Pyramid) as these are components that are part of the Nvidia 3D Vision Driver and they seem to have been removed from the latest drivers?! Or maybe not?!
I think, the best way to go forward is to find out a solution on how we can RESSURECT the Hardware (using what was called 3D Vision Direct) and forget about the Automatic part (the Stereo duplication & rendering) as we can do that ourselves.
The one thing that I want to get away from in Vk3DVision was exactly this! Get away from the Nvidia 3D Vision driver & 3D Vision monitors! Hence, the VR, SBS & TU support (since the stereo rendering is done independently of the actual 3D Vision driver)!

If I am making an assumption that is wrong, please let me know!

Cheers,
Helifax
http://3dsurroundgaming.com:
- Home of OGL3DVision wrapper & Vk3DVision - Play your favourite OpenGL & Vulkan games in Stereoscopic 3D using Nvidia 3D Vision OR Virtual Reality using HelixVision(https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127310/HelixVision/)
- Home of some of my UHD Surround/Eyefinity/21:9/32:9 Fixes. (Or you can always check http://pcgamingwiki.com/)

Want to contribute to the development of Vk3DVision? You can check my Patreon Page for the project: https://www.patreon.com/Vk3DVision. If you still like my project but don't want to contribute monthly you can always send me a PayPal: tavyhomeppal@hotmail.com.

You can always follow me on Twitter: @OctavianVasilov

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Hi Helifax, your input is always appreciated mate.

iZ3D was always the best driver with the most output modes and the best game compatibility, until the 3DV community started fixing 3DV games.

The driver has a number of output modes. The crucial one (by far the biggest demand) which was needed to work for the overall success of the company was the shutter output.

This was unfortunately not completely achieved circa 2008, and very unfortunately, people moved onto 3DV which had the hardware and software support from nVidia to a working degree. The 3DV community did the hard work to actually make it compatible with games, and the rest is history.

Back in 2008-ish, the issue was that the quad buffer output required for nVidia's 3DV was proprietary. There was the assumption that the publically available nvapi did not have the needed interface to enable quad buffer 3D support. It was then theorised that the proprietary nvapi which could be obtained by big companies under NDA might have this. iZ3D signed up to the nVidia program but confirmed later that they tried it, however even the proprietary nvapi did not have anything useful.

They then tried to hire someone with the relevant experience, because DDD/Tridef had it figured out.

Coming to the latest release (1.13) in ~2011, for which we have the source code for... what we know:

1. iZ3D released this as a special "universal shutter gasses driver" which specifically works with nVidia shutter glasses: This entire article is very useful, and it gives some basic instructions on how to get nVidia glasses to work I think:

https://3dvision-blog.com/5204-iz3d-fin ... -releases/

2. AMD's quad buffer mode is supported natively.

3. eDimensional glasses in interleaved mode work fine

4. There is a marked output for which we can modify hardware to use shutter glasses with

5. 120Hz mode is reported working (I don't know what this is - DLP link? 120Hz HMD output? Frame-packed Stereo?)

6. A couple of people reported Z800 output as working.

7. Bo3b says he ought to be able to get VR headsets to work without much problem - anaglyph works regardless, which I believe HelixVision uses in some fashion.

8. Interleaved and SBS outputs work.

9. Dual output works, e.g if you have a stereo mirror arrangement or a dual projector setup.

So where does that leave us with 3DV hardware specifically?
What we have working to various degrees: The glasses themselves, the monitor, the stereorising software, and the game profiles, as evidenced by the article above.

What we /probably/ need to get working: quad buffer so that the output syncs with the glasses.

Otherwise, while the glasses are blinking RLRLRLRLRLRL, the frames might be RLRRLLLRLRRLL, unless the game FPS is kept >60fps 3D.

I don't know how easy or hard this would be today, - I do not know our capabilities in regards to reverse engineering/hacking/copying/wrapping what nVidia already does into something which is driver agnostic quad buffer.

I don't know if iZ3D managed to figure this out in the end by themselves... it would be amazing if they did!

iZ3D also probably requires a working 3DV driver to be installed - I don't know if we have the capability to bypass this, and this is likely what your question was regarding. I emphatically agree with you that getting this hardware side working without having a 'working' 3DV driver installed would be a cornerstone.

However, I did manage to get a hardware solution working with marked shutter output 10 years ago by sampling the marked output's blue line using a photo diode, and then using that to sync eDimensional's shutter glasses instead of the DDC signal from the graphics output. The results were promising, but most people, including myself, had moved to 3DV by then, and the solution wasn't elegant as the best way to have done it would have been the quad buffer software solution.

In conclusion - as bo3b says, this is a solid platform to launch from. If we can figure out the few missing steps, then we can break away from nVidia's shackles forever :)
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by helifax »

Hi Rage!
Very very nice write up and thank you for taking the time and bring me up to speed on this ;)
It does sound very promising especially all the outputs support ;)

I'll dig deeper in that blog post ^_^

Cheers!
http://3dsurroundgaming.com:
- Home of OGL3DVision wrapper & Vk3DVision - Play your favourite OpenGL & Vulkan games in Stereoscopic 3D using Nvidia 3D Vision OR Virtual Reality using HelixVision(https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127310/HelixVision/)
- Home of some of my UHD Surround/Eyefinity/21:9/32:9 Fixes. (Or you can always check http://pcgamingwiki.com/)

Want to contribute to the development of Vk3DVision? You can check my Patreon Page for the project: https://www.patreon.com/Vk3DVision. If you still like my project but don't want to contribute monthly you can always send me a PayPal: tavyhomeppal@hotmail.com.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

I've been poking around in the code when I have a free minute, and looking to understand how it's setup. Of note... I have the D3D9 wrapper compiling and linking, using old tools. :ugeek: This is using VS2010, so not exactly what we want, but for the programmers, getting it to compile is a big deal.

Doesn't run, rest of the build is broken because of the usual porting problems. No SVN for example, so $WCREV$ doesn't exist. Obvious stuff.


Also- when I try to run the installer, I get a blue screen. Is this is the result that you all see? It happens during the installer itself, not when trying to enable the driver. I think they have a kernel driver, which is the incompatibility for Win10, because those are no longer allowed. And also, for something like anaglyph or SBS, not necessary, because a user-mode driver would be fine.


Version of the code is 1.13.0 - so we have the latest version with the universal shutter code. It'll take me awhile to understand the code here. I'll put it up on Github as soon as I get a chance.

All in all, the code base is very well built, and the code is good. Not nearly enough documentation, missing all of the 'why' questions, and no architectural descriptions. No SVN code history/checkin comments. No architecture docs means tedious understanding from code components.

There are two unusual outputs I've never heard of: Daxon and ColorCode. I assume those must be obsolete monitors, but in any case, they won't compile.


@helifax: The reason this is interesting is because it's a standalone driver doing the doubling of the draw calls already. Sure it's old, and mostly oriented toward DX9, but it's already 'done' and working. It had development from maybe 3 devs for 8 years, so something like 20 man years of development. We cannot possibly get to this level of maturity by writing our own replacement driver.

So the reason I'm interested is not solely the array of output types, but more the replacement for 3D Vision Automatic Mode altogether. If it works, we already have a stable, debugged, code base for further games. This is true geo-3D, with an asymmetric frustum, the high quality version.

Lastly there are a set of games that they support that we've never fixed. Always good to have more games.


That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking at a 3D Vision workaround. I'm likely going to look at that first actually, because I think there is a reasonable chance of getting that to work again, with a couple of weeks of effort. In any case, I have to know if my idea of routing stereo calls to an old driver will work, because I hate the idea of losing 600 DX11 fixes.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Blacksmith60 »

"because I hate the idea of losing 600 DX11 fixes" that's a very good point, I bet my life's best gaming sessions will remain there :)

Thanks to every one here, I'll follow this thread with the highest interrest, and especially thank to you bo3bber for the extensive amount of hours you put in my/our very best hobby !

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Fyi bo3b, ColorCode 3D is something we might be interested in reviving at some point:

Basically, it's anaglyph but in full colour, using cheap glasses. It has a number of advantages over shutter glasses:

1. The biggest advantage is that the output is full 120FPS per eye, simultaneously, or whatever the refresh rate of the gaming monitor might be, e.g. 144Hz / 165Hz etc.

2. There is no alternate flickering and no need for VSync so it's a much smoother experience due to the passive nature of the technology.

3. It's ~ twice as bright because the LCD's are not cutting out half the light as they shutter alternately.

4. If the colours are setup well, there is virtually no ghosting.

5. If we want to get away from 3D vision hardware altogether, even the quad buffer issue, (you state that a kernel level driver is not required for anaglyph); and even use non-Stereo 3D monitors, e.g. ones which work only at 60Hz, then this is a great solution because the glasses are paper cheap and universally compatible with all display devices.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorCode_3-D

Demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVzBLNeC5Y4

You obviously have enough on your plate right now; however, it would be good to keep in all our minds that our current 3D Vision hardware doesn't necessarily have to be the be-all end-all of everything, as there are potentially 'better' solutions open(source) to us now :)
Edit: Clarity | Windows 10 64-Bit | 7700K @ 5.1GHz | 2080 Ti OC | 32GB 3956MHz CL16 RAM | Optane PCIe SSD | Sound Blaster ZxR | 2x 2000W ButtKicker LFE | nVidia 3D Vision | 3D Projector @ DSR 1600p | Oculus Rift CV1

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by qjkxbmwvz »

As a longtime anaglyph user (since 2006!), I feel that I must offer some corrections.

First of all, there is no way to get full color in anaglyph. Your monitor displays three colors: red, green, and blue. Anaglyph glasses work by blocking one of these colors from one eye and the other two from the other. No matter what color combination you use, whether it be the traditional red/cyan, magenta/green, or ColorCode's yellow/blue, this will always be the case. Every color gets through (as long as you don't use Nvidia's terrible half-color mode), but your eyes see only 1/3 and 2/3 color respectively, making 1/2 color on average. (And some combinations may be difficult to see; I had to train myself to see red at all with red/cyan glasses because my right eye is dominant.) Shutter glasses will give you full color in both eyes.

Secondly, you will not double your brightness. The reason for this is the same as with the color: your eyes are each getting half of an image. This is the necessary consequence of using one display device to give separate information to two eyes; with half of the output delivered to each, you get half of the brightness.

Lastly, to eliminate ghosting, you need the lens colors to exactly match your monitor's primaries. The degree to which they don't will be the degree to which you have ghosting.

Now, as for arbitrary framerates and selecting whatever monitor you want, that's absolutely true (unless it has a fourth primary for yellow, but I'm not aware of any screens with true yellow). Anaglyph lets you have G-Sync in 3D.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Hi "qjkxbmwvz", thank you for the input, all discussion is always appreciated :)

I believe the confusion is that we are not talking about Anaglyph, which was a technology developed over 150 years ago; 1853 I believe, according to Wiki.

In Contrast, ColorCode3D was developed and deployed in the year 2000, patent date 2004, and is starkly different from the ubiquitous anaglyph that you very correctly describe :)

The difference isn't just the colour of filters used, but intrinsically in how the 3D is encoded as well.

Have you had a chance to read about ColorCode3D on the linked Wiki article?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorCode_3-D

I have never used ColorCode3D personally; So as not to add to confusion due to any perceived personal bias, I'll quote the wiki article directly:

-- "intended to provide the perception of nearly full colour viewing"

-- "One eye (left, amber filter) receives the cross-spectrum colour information and one eye (right, blue filter) sees a monochrome image designed to give the depth effect. The human brain ties both images together."

--"The backwards compatible 2D viewing experience for viewers not wearing glasses is improved, generally being better than previous red and green anaglyph imaging systems"

-- "The displayed hues and intensity can be subtly adjusted to further improve the perceived 2D image, with problems only generally found in the case of extreme blue."

-- "The blue filter is centred on 450 nm and the amber filter lets in light at wavelengths at above 500 nm. Wide spectrum colour is possible because the amber filter lets through light across most wavelengths in spectrum."

-- "ColorCode 3-D, like all stereoscopic 3D technologies, does reduce the overall brightness of the viewed image. Also, improperly calibrated displays can cause image ghosting."

As examples, one can see the stark difference between the colour perception of old Anaglyph technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOiIzho51g

versus the new ColorCode3D technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVzBLNeC5Y4

A reasonable observer would agree that the improvement is vast.


Regarding brightness:

In my humble experience, LCD shutter glasses first reduce the brightness by ~50% by simply forcing the light through polarising filters. That's why the perceived image when viewed via shutter glasses when they are OFF is significantly dimmer than without glasses.

Then the brightness is reduced 50% more as each eye shutters alternately. This means that shutter glasses only let through ~25% of the light emitted by the display device. I also note that there are other factors such as Ultra Low Brightness Mode, and each blank being longer than 50% timing, to reduce persistence (ghosting) which dims the light even further.

Comparing with colorCode3D, although the image is indeed somewhat less bright compared to the original display image, it is therefore much brighter than LCD shutter glasses.

As I said, I have never tried ColorCode 3D, and undoubtedly, the colours won't be nearly as good as shutter glasses simply due to the nature of colour filters, however I am quite intrigued; - I believe ColorCode3D ought to be given a fair chance as a standalone technology, not to be tarnished by the primitive anaglyph tech that you very correctly describe :)

Edit: I may have tried it on UK terrestrial TV with paper glasses... my memory fails me; it was a long time ago.
Last edited by RAGEdemon on Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

Question for iz3d users: What is your opinion of their approach of using an on/off driver model via their control panel? Did you like this approach or do you prefer the helixmod drop in dlls approach? Your opinion can help inform how I approach fixing iz3d for the future.


After a bit of research I think I've figured out why iz3d does not work on Win10, and it seems to be directly related to the hooking library that they used call madchook. That library was pulled out of the source code because it is proprietary, but is still available for commercial use.

That library was the goto hooking library of the time, and predates deviare or easyhook, and worked in x64 unlike Detours.

However, the approach that madchook used was to create a kernel-mode driver as the way to catch any game launches. This fails on Win10 because of changes to the kernel itself, and because that madchook version is obsolete, it has some sort of fatal error. Since it's running as part of the kernel, you get a blue-screen.

So... I can replace the hooking library easily enough, but I'm disinclined to use that kernel driver approach because of the inherent risk.


The hooking library is just the loader mechanism for the iz3d stereo code, so in itself it's not particularly interesting. I'm going to see if I can figure out an easy way to load the iz3d stereo code without needing any hooking.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by helifax »

RAGEdemon wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:47 am Hi "qjkxbmwvz", thank you for the input, all discussion is always appreciated :)

I believe the confusion is that we are not talking about Anaglyph, which was a technology developed over 150 years ago; 1853 I believe, according to Wiki.

In Contrast, ColorCode3D was developed and deployed in the year 2000, patent date 2004, and is starkly different from the ubiquitous anaglyph that you very correctly describe :)

The difference isn't just the colour of filters used, but intrinsically in how the 3D is encoded as well.

Have you had a chance to read about ColorCode3D on the linked Wiki article?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorCode_3-D

I have never used ColorCode3D personally; So as not to add to confusion due to any perceived personal bias, I'll quote the wiki article directly:

-- "intended to provide the perception of nearly full colour viewing"

-- "One eye (left, amber filter) receives the cross-spectrum colour information and one eye (right, blue filter) sees a monochrome image designed to give the depth effect. The human brain ties both images together."

--"The backwards compatible 2D viewing experience for viewers not wearing glasses is improved, generally being better than previous red and green anaglyph imaging systems"

-- "The displayed hues and intensity can be subtly adjusted to further improve the perceived 2D image, with problems only generally found in the case of extreme blue."

-- "The blue filter is centred on 450 nm and the amber filter lets in light at wavelengths at above 500 nm. Wide spectrum colour is possible because the amber filter lets through light across most wavelengths in spectrum."

-- "ColorCode 3-D, like all stereoscopic 3D technologies, does reduce the overall brightness of the viewed image. Also, improperly calibrated displays can cause image ghosting."

As examples, one can see the stark difference between the colour perception of old Anaglyph technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOiIzho51g

versus the new ColorCode3D technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVzBLNeC5Y4

A reasonable observer would agree that the improvement is vast.


Regarding brightness:

In my humble experience, LCD shutter glasses first reduce the brightness by ~50% by simply forcing the light through polarising filters. That's why the perceived image when viewed via shutter glasses when they are OFF is significantly dimmer than without glasses.

Then the brightness is reduced 50% more as each eye shutters alternately. This means that shutter glasses only let through ~25% of the light emitted by the display device. I also note that there are other factors such as Ultra Low Brightness Mode, and each blank being longer than 50% timing, to reduce persistence (ghosting) which dims the light even further.

Comparing with colorCode3D, although the image is indeed somewhat less bright compared to the original display image, it is therefore much brighter than LCD shutter glasses.

As I said, I have never tried ColorCode 3D, and undoubtedly, the colours won't be nearly as good as shutter glasses simply due to the nature of colour filters, however I am quite intrigued; - I believe ColorCode3D ought to be given a fair chance as a standalone technology, not to be tarnished by the primitive anaglyph tech that you very correctly describe :)

Edit: I may have tried it on UK terrestrial TV with paper glasses... my memory fails me; it was a long time ago.
Never heard of "ColorCode3D".
Even Nvidia with 3D Shutter glasses and V2 - with lightboost - has issues, like crosstalk, not to mention their driver...ahem... and ahem... other stuff...
Virtual Reality is the future, with some proper OLED Screens, big enough resolution and wide FOV ^_^ I hope the cheap and cheesy Quest 2 catches up to the market so VR is more broadly adopted, so we can move on and actually make AWESOME PC VR headsets that don't require you to sell a kidney on the black market :lol: ;)
(I mean the Quest 2 is so cheap that it doesn't even provide a proper IPD dial. I am on 69 and I can't use any of their STUPID PRESET PROFILES, because they don't match my IPD. I am not going even to mention their default cloth strap. Coming from a Vive Pro and trying the Quest 2 was like going back in time! But HEY, a lot of people love it! 8-) :geek: :mrgreen: So, I guess it is good! Fingers crossed that more people will get into VR!)

Anywho;)

Cheers!
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Want to contribute to the development of Vk3DVision? You can check my Patreon Page for the project: https://www.patreon.com/Vk3DVision. If you still like my project but don't want to contribute monthly you can always send me a PayPal: tavyhomeppal@hotmail.com.

You can always follow me on Twitter: @OctavianVasilov

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Chtiblue »

+1
🤣😆🍻

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by thebigdogma »

+1 :D

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by thebigdogma »

I don't mind the strap on Oculus 2... more comfortable for me than Original Oculus or my CV1. Just played Saints and Sinners on O2 with Oculus Link for an hour or so and it was the most comfortable experience I have had to date (I am also a glasses-wearer.)

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

Hehe yep, VR is definitely the way to go in the future :)

Heli (iirc) and I have the HP Reverb G2 on preorder, but it would be a shame to leave out members who don't have VR, e.g. the ever excellent masterotaku.

A couple of others here have ordered the G2 too; it seems like an excellent headset for monitor replacement, e.g HelixVision, due to its '4k' resolution, and far more affordable price than something like PiMax 8KX...

Shipping in the next few weeks; we're all very excited... any interest from other chaps?
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by P.C.Zen »

Oops sorry, double post. :oops:
Last edited by P.C.Zen on Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by P.C.Zen »

RAGEdemon wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:35 pm A couple of others here have ordered the G2 too; it seems like an excellent headset for monitor replacement, e.g HelixVision, due to its '4k' resolution, and far more affordable price than something like PiMax 8KX...

Shipping in the next few weeks; we're all very excited... any interest from other chaps?
I'm very interested in VR. I tried it in the 90's and it blew my mind and I've been looking forward to it ever since people started working on it again, but I just don't have the cash to buy into it in its nascent form. Once it's developed enough to replace 3D vision I could be tempted to convert but I've no idea how close to that things are...?

...how long do you guys estimate it'll be until it can be used for a "virtual 3D monitor" for 3D gaming?

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by thebigdogma »

P.C.Zen wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:40 pm
RAGEdemon wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:35 pm A couple of others here have ordered the G2 too; it seems like an excellent headset for monitor replacement, e.g HelixVision, due to its '4k' resolution, and far more affordable price than something like PiMax 8KX...

Shipping in the next few weeks; we're all very excited... any interest from other chaps?
I'm very interested in VR. I tried it in the 90's and it blew my mind and I've been looking forward to it ever since people started working on it again, but I just don't have the cash to buy into it in its nascent form. Once it's developed enough to replace 3D vision I could be tempted to convert but I've no idea how close to that things are...?

...how long do you guys estimate it'll be until it can be used for a "virtual 3D monitor" for 3D gaming?
From my POV, the answer is "now." This new generation of VR features much-improved optics and better comfort for long gaming sessions - at much better prices. The per-eye resolution limit of the prior devices was really the only thing holding VR back from being a 3DV monitor replacement, IMO.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Lysander »

thebigdogma wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:50 pm
P.C.Zen wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:40 pm
RAGEdemon wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:35 pm A couple of others here have ordered the G2 too; it seems like an excellent headset for monitor replacement, e.g HelixVision, due to its '4k' resolution, and far more affordable price than something like PiMax 8KX...

Shipping in the next few weeks; we're all very excited... any interest from other chaps?
I'm very interested in VR. I tried it in the 90's and it blew my mind and I've been looking forward to it ever since people started working on it again, but I just don't have the cash to buy into it in its nascent form. Once it's developed enough to replace 3D vision I could be tempted to convert but I've no idea how close to that things are...?

...how long do you guys estimate it'll be until it can be used for a "virtual 3D monitor" for 3D gaming?
From my POV, the answer is "now." This new generation of VR features much-improved optics and better comfort for long gaming sessions - at much better prices. The per-eye resolution limit of the prior devices was really the only thing holding VR back from being a 3DV monitor replacement, IMO.
So you dont observe the screendoor effect? Which HMD do you have? Is reverb2 better than Index?
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by bo3bber »

Guys... Can we take the VR discussion somewhere else? This thread is about getting iz3d working, and all this off-topic chatter is not helpful.


I don't understand why you are all so enthusiastic for 3D to die in favor of VR, but I'd say you already got your wish.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Necropants »

Yeah, I'm definitely not so please stay on topic people. Plenty of existing threads talking about VR. My fingers are permanently crossed.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by thebigdogma »

Apologies... to be clear, I am in now way in a hurry for S3D to die, just want to make sure I have my options covered when the time comes where my monitor goes south or glasses, or emitter! :)

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by RAGEdemon »

bo3bber wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:42 pm I don't understand why you are all so enthusiastic for 3D to die in favor of VR, but I'd say you already got your wish.
Not at all mate; I believe we were all discussing getting 3DV working IN VR (your HelixVision), as an output device, which you have said you will eventually add. Apologies if it seemed we were going in the wrong direction.

Back on topic, I have ran relevant tests (I hope) regarding Helifax's wrapper performance:

viewtopic.php?p=174362#p174362

I hope that this shows we do not have to resign ourselves to CPU bottlenecks and double GPU performance hit (that we were stuck with 3D Vision), when we unshackle ours away from the nVidia 3D Vision drivers, as ingeniously shown by Helifax.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Blacksmith60 »

Just a short comment on VR - I'll prefer good oll 3D any day :)

So back on topic, @bo3bber said: Question for iz3d users: What is your opinion of their approach of using an on/off driver model via their control panel? Did you like this approach or do you prefer the helixmod drop in dlls approach? Your opinion can help inform how I approach fixing iz3d for the future.

I actually find the controlpanel solution refreshing, and maybe more compatible with other "software drops" ?
But ofc I'll gladly take any possible solution provided :)

I don't know anything about Colorcode 3D, but it sounds to me like it could be an IZ3D alternative to CM, compatible with plenty of hardware...

Thanks bo3bber, my fingers are also crossed !

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

@bo3bber: yes you can rehost the archive I sent if you want.

I think the main issue is not to make work old 3Dvision display (it's an issue but not the main), it's to make works the modern 3D display that are still in production.
3Dvision is now at his end will become a dead end more soon than later.

Reviving or using iZ3D driver, why not but we still need to access to a quad buffer, so it's not perfect. Quad buffer is still here on AMD driver, but for how many time?
That's why, I think, our future is in linux and it's open sources graphics drivers. Especially that now games works fine on linux (at the exception of multiplayer games with modern anti-cheat software). Unfortunately contrary to AMD, nvidia does not provide any resources for linux open source drivers development.

youtube 3D stopped many years ago.
iZ3D died in 2012, last driver in 2011,
tridef died in end of 2018.
PowerDVD removed bluray 3D compatibility in PWDVD20.
Phereo is always down/super slow.
The only stereoscopic displays still on the market are HMD and some DLP projectors.

Now if we want S3D, to continue to exist, we can't rely for long on a few passionate guys that work on their spare time.
We need a structure capable to pay guys that works on S3D at full time.

What about apply to local stereoscopic clubs? They are all over the world, and a lot of them are members of International Stereoscopic Union.
Of course it can work only if we are a lot and if we apply in mass.
So we could influence this clubs and our subscription could pay for starting stereoscopic digital projects. Probably this projects would still need to be commercial in order to have enough income.
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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by john105 »

bo3bber wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:04 pm OK, promising at least in that it doesn't crash right off the bat. That's pretty good for 10 year old software running on an OS it never expected.

Anaglyph mode is probably the simplest and most likely to get working, because it doesn't require any drivers or other tricky hardware.


If someone can test on Win7, that will also be a helpful piece of information. It might also be worth using an older driver like 425.31 or even older.
I've never used iZ3D, so I thought I wouldn't be a very good tester. But seeing that nobody here really made it work, I decided to give it a try.

Installation went well. It installs 2 kernel-mode drivers and 2 services. They have the following description:

iZ3DInjectionDriver / Driver inject our D3D and OGL wrappers
iZ3D Driver\Win64\S3DInjectionDriver.sys

iZ3DShutterService
system32\Drivers\iZ3DShutterService.sys

S3DSvc64 / S3D Service (Win64) / Inject and UnInject 3D driver
iZ3D Driver\Win64\S3DCService.exe

S3DSvc32 / S3DSvc64 / Inject and UnInject 3D driver
iZ3D Driver\Win32\S3DCService.exe

I tried it with 2 old games, Half-Life 2 and Dead Space. Anaglyph mode worked fine in both games and both built-in tests. Even the "iZShutterOutput" mode kind of worked, but unfortunately it doesn't look like it's compatible with 3D Vision. I just saw a blinking double image in that mode.

I did it on Core i9-9900KS, GTX 1080 Ti, 3D Vision monitor, Win 7 and 425.31 driver.

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Re: iZ3D in 2020

Post by Guig2000 »

I now remember that D3D10+ IZ3D injection stopped to works on Nvidia after some GeForce driver version (maybe 230 something).

EDIT:
A method that activate 3Dvision glasses for iZ3D: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/fo ... ision-gla/
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