Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

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FinalFoxX
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Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by FinalFoxX »

Sorry, if this has asked before. I've found a number of issues with Windows 10, but not in this particular area. Here's the issue:

Everything works... once it installs the latest NVidia drivers, the 3D drivers, and the quick setup... it works flawlessly. But, restart and... it doesn't work on games (works on 3 pictures and testing though) and requires an other installation of the drivers and setup for it to work again.

Has anyone ran into this issue before? I've turned off Win10 update and the issue is still present. Thanks for any feedback!

1080ti Strix
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schwing
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by schwing »

    What graphics driver version are you installing? If 430.39 or later, then what method did you use to get 3D Vision working (3D Fix Manager, BringBack3DV, etc.)? Or if so, have you not used one of these methods to get 3D Vision working? They're required in this scenario to get games to show up in 3D.
Last edited by schwing on Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Win 10 v1909 / 1x Nvidia 980Ti GPU (v442.19, 1080p)

bo3bber
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by bo3bber »

Yeah, that sounds like you are missing the famous Schwing hack to keep drivers running past 430.39. UE4 games in particular will simply crash at launch without it.


It doesn't seem like anyone is interested, but the beta_driver branch of HelixVision has pioneered a new approach for driver hacking that is plug-n-play. It still uses the Schwing hack, but only applies it on a per-game basis, so you don't have to do anything except click Play3D or PlayInVR in the UI.

PaulDusler and I have been working out the bugs, and it seems to work pretty well. He will make this the default approach for an upcoming 3DFM update as well, but also keep the global driver fix for cases where it's not possible to run a changed 3Dmigoto in a game.


@Schwing: Thanks again for the killer work on finding the workaround for the driver. We would be in dire straits by now.

After digging into the guts of it a bit- I believe that the branch instruction that you found is somehow related to the 3D on/off setting in Windows itself. The nvwgf2umx.dll is how the OS figures out the capabilities of the card itself. The driver is provided by nvidia, but the requests and design of the dll is Microsoft. It figures out what all features are available, including 3D I think.

My best guess at the moment is that Windows 1903 and above knew that Nvidia canceled 3D Vision, and use some sort of version as the decision to not show the 3D button in their UI.

Not sure of course, just passing along, and writing down some research.

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schwing
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by schwing »

    For the dll, I checked Microsoft's methods of detecting what OS it is and that doesn't seem to be it from what I can tell. I could be wrong or they're using some other way, but I haven't been able to figure out if it's a 3DV flag or what. I had been looking into DX12 stereo since that doesn't work on passive screens for me.

    For Windows 10's Settings app, I tried regedit in the 3DV portion, regedit in the graphics card portion, or somehow flipping the value in Settings's memory. Nothing so far, and I'm not sure if the flag is even there anymore. I saw in Shadow of the Tomb Raider that the method for checking for 3DV displays might be a reason why, but nothing added up. It's complicated work, so I will likely focus on DX12 stereo more before I come back to DX11's. I suspect that the fix might involve the root cause for DX11 stereo being broken anyway.
Win 10 v1909 / 1x Nvidia 980Ti GPU (v442.19, 1080p)

bo3bber
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by bo3bber »

It is indeed complicated to reverse engineer this hunk of code, especially as it's not well documented.

I think the 3D flag in the OS still exists on 1903, because when I run driver 425.31, I still see the flag in their UI. I don't know that I looked on later versions.

The version checking in the DLL doesn't solely use the registry versions, it also calls out to ntdll.dll for RtlGetVersion. It bypasses the normal GetVersion call for this hidden one. It doesn't seem to use registry for that, but I'm not sure where it gets the number. I used APImonitor to watch all the calls in nvwgf2um and it's definitely some sort of feature/hardware checking/lookup including for DX12 support. When I get a chance, I'm going to hook the RtlGetVersion also and lie about the OS version and see what happens.

There is some driver level documentation about the OpenAdapter12 calls, but I found the older OpenAdapter10 documentation easier to find. It's documentation for someone like NVidia or Intel to make their own dll.

FinalFoxX
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by FinalFoxX »

schwing wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:43 am     For the dll, I checked Microsoft's methods of detecting what OS it is and that doesn't seem to be it from what I can tell. I could be wrong or they're using some other way, but I haven't been able to figure out if it's a 3DV flag or what. I had been looking into DX12 stereo since that doesn't work on passive screens for me.

    For Windows 10's Settings app, I tried regedit in the 3DV portion, regedit in the graphics card portion, or somehow flipping the value in Settings's memory. Nothing so far, and I'm not sure if the flag is even there anymore. I saw in Shadow of the Tomb Raider that the method for checking for 3DV displays might be a reason why, but nothing added up. It's complicated work, so I will likely focus on DX12 stereo more before I come back to DX11's. I suspect that the fix might involve the root cause for DX11 stereo being broken anyway.
Thanks for the awesome replies. Sorry for being a bit late, but yes, I use 3D Fix method. Launch the program, it asks to install 446.14+ and then the ***DHC*** drivers... and then I punch quick setup. Baddah bing... it works.

Am I stuck at a certain version?

I'm playing Bloodstained and Code Vein, both are ue4, right? They launch fine without the fresh driver install, but it's in 2d and if you press CTRL+T, the NVIDIA box flickers and the glasses do nothing, as it stays in 2d. The NVIDIA control panel locks the framerate for the monitor at 60 and stereo is indeed turned on, but natta... until I reinstall the drivers. Something's gotta be happening on restart, right?

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helifax
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by helifax »

This is a bit strange...
I am on Win 10 Pro (1909) with the latest DCH drivers (both on my desktop and laptop) and I have no issues starting 3DVision using 3DFM after any reboot, nor do I need to reinstall drivers.
I know this sounds silly, but have you tried using DDU and reinstalling from scratch? (Sorry, if you posted that you already tried it).
I'm using GFE + Latest drivers + 3DFM for enabling 3D Vision and I don't have any issue... (except not being able to take 3D screenshots...grrr).

Cheers,
Helifax
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Want to contribute to the development of Vk3DVision? You can check my Patreon Page for the project: https://www.patreon.com/Vk3DVision. If you still like my project but don't want to contribute monthly you can always send me a PayPal: tavyhomeppal@hotmail.com.

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FinalFoxX
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by FinalFoxX »

helifax wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:37 pm This is a bit strange...
I am on Win 10 Pro (1909) with the latest DCH drivers (both on my desktop and laptop) and I have no issues starting 3DVision using 3DFM after any reboot, nor do I need to reinstall drivers.
I know this sounds silly, but have you tried using DDU and reinstalling from scratch? (Sorry, if you posted that you already tried it).
I'm using GFE + Latest drivers + 3DFM for enabling 3D Vision and I don't have any issue... (except not being able to take 3D screenshots...grrr).

Cheers,
Helifax
That does tell me it must either be my software or hardware or windows version. If I had to guess on software... it either have to be DWS from Majorgeeks.com, Armorcrate from ASUS, 2004 version of windows, or the bloatware removal powershell method from here. Short of a reformat. I got nothin.

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WickedScav
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Re: Windows 10 Pro - Need to reinstall drivers on reboot everytime

Post by WickedScav »

I had a similar issue with 1909 and the last official nvidia 3DV drivers whenever I started SotTR, I had to reinstall the drivers again after the next reboot. But this only happened with SotTR and I am not using 3DFM.

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