Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

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zaibaker
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Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by zaibaker »

Hello,

i was curious about the future of 3D gaming we all love.

The trends will inevitably come where DX12 or Vulkan will be the must have API to launch games.
(I know actual business can't ditch all the consumer parc of PC on old OS not supporting DX12, but Vulkan is a solution for them)

Why that?
Because streaming platforms relies on this, as we see in Google Stadia for example, and i suppose it's easier to port console games on other platform too when you develop in those latest APIs.
And i'm not talking about ports from console exclusive to PC market for more consumer reach.

So, maybe Helifax, Bo3b, DarkStarWord and other shaderhackers can describe what is the future state of stereoscopic gaming?
Curious to know the impact for the future of HelixVision too.

I really want to see a new dynamic about 3DMigoto where we see new APIs game fix, like RDR 2, Assassin's Creed or any big AAA actually not fixable.

I hope to see good replies of our masters of shaderhacking.
Thank you very much for the great things and support you continue to offer for us, gamers!

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by bo3bber »

It's just a question of what is the best use of our engineering time.

It's not impossible that we could add DX12 and/or Vulkan support to 3Dmigoto. The only real problem is that it is a ton of work, for currently low payoff. Spending six months writing and debugging code, just for 2 or 3 games is not a good use of time. There are a lot more valuable things to work upon, like a complete replacement for 3D Vision itself.

Right at this moment, I only know of RedDeadRedemption as being strictly DX12 and having no option for a fix. I don't know of any other games that don't have a fallback available to DX11. If the next gen consoles are DX12 only, that will slowly change the calculation by having more games that are DX12 only, and thus unfixable. We can expect that to be pretty slow though, at least a year from now before it's an impact. Maybe longer, because new engines take a really long time to debug, and the supposed performance gains for DX12 just aren't there, so they actually don't have that much incentive.


There is also the question of whether it's something one of us is interested in spending our time upon.

For me personally, I'm not particularly interested in DX12, and most new AAA games are boring, so I'm not inclined to spend my time there.


Then there is the existential threat to all of our 3D gaming by 3D Vision being canceled. We've had some good luck from Losti and Schwing figuring out workarounds for driver problems, but we can expect that at some point we hit a wall and cannot keep up with new drivers. I'm actually a little surprised we've found workarounds so far- it gives you some idea of how little the drivers actually change if we can still hack in the 3D Vision driver after more than a year and have it work.

We have no idea what will happen with next-gen hardware either, and that's a possible break point for 3D Vision if they change the driver a lot for next generation hardware.

All that combined with NVidia being pricks makes me not at all inclined to work on DX12, but very inclined to work on a 3D Vision replacement so we can bring in AMD hardware too. And get out from underneath NVidia's thumb for good.


DarkStarSword has a much better idea of what it takes to do DX12, and is partway down that path already with a DX11->12 interop layer.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Necropants »

Thanks for the update, yeah I believe that's the better way going forward.
Doom eternal, Star citizen, Gears of war 5 and gears tactics and RDR are the games that come to mind off the top of my head. (could be wrong on one or two of those)

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Zappologist »

Bo3b's analysis is fully on point, as always.

I think it speaks volumes about our awesome community, the fact that in the last few years there was maybe one game that I would have liked to play in 3D and could't, due to lack of wrapper: The Surge 2. (RDR2 tempted me as well, but it looks like the usual Rockstar artistic behemoth, so it can wait ...)

Many people on the net complain about their backlog, and how their game purchases far surpasses their ability to play the games themselves. For us, real 3D gamers, the backlog problem is less of an issue, as we only play 3D games so the selection is much smaller. Or so I thought until recently, when I took a casual look at HelixBlog. The number of 3D fixes rolling out every month is staggering.
Maybe I'm too old to remember how the regular gamer consumes games in general, but I now start to realise that I have a "3D backlog" problem.
That's the greatest compliment to the fixers and contributors still fighting for the 3D cause.
State of Decay 2 si now playable? 3DFM is now too good to be true! HelixVision is keeping the hardware apocalypse at bay for now, while also creating a lot of awareness about the fixes and 3D technology in general! The universal fixes allow people who never contributed before to find setting or even fix games easily ...

I'm in awe everyday when I read the news here. You guys are the best.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by RAGEdemon »

Not 3DVision specific, but for what it's worth, VorpX (VR) has limited '3D' (CM) support in DX12, and proper 3D DX12 is being looked at.

E.g. DX12 only RDR2 works well with VorpX, and generally speaking, VR CM is very good in a number of games, with the added advantage that there is no performance hit, nor the 3 core CPU bug compared to flat 2D performance.

https://youtu.be/g26RRZALjow

More generally, VR games (full stereoscopic 3D with all degrees of freedom) have no problem with Vulkan or DX12; and with the success of games such as Half-Life Alyx, and next gen VR headsets being innovated right now such as PiMax 8KX and HP Reverb 2, the future of StereoScopic gaming via VR is bright and being actively worked on.

I can appreciate that not everyone has interest in VR, but as far as the topic of "StereoScopic Gaming" goes, the general future is positive when we don't specifically talk about 3DV.

Silver linings and all that... :)

Edit - added better youtube link.
Last edited by RAGEdemon on Mon May 11, 2020 3:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by bo3bber »

Zappologist wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 2:03 amMany people on the net complain about their backlog, and how their game purchases far surpasses their ability to play the games themselves. For us, real 3D gamers, the backlog problem is less of an issue, as we only play 3D games so the selection is much smaller. Or so I thought until recently, when I took a casual look at HelixBlog. The number of 3D fixes rolling out every month is staggering.
This is another good point I hadn't thought of, which factors into what to work on. With current HelixMods alone, there are on the order of over 900 games that have been fixed in 3D. I've played only a small fraction of those, and have a lifetime's backlog of fully fixed games in 3D, that are easily as good as current new stuff that ships. This is another factor for me personally why I'm not interested in the new APIs- I've already got more than I can possibly get to.

However, everyone is different, and there is always a chance that a new game catches the attention of someone like myself, DarkStarSword, Helifax, ColAngel, Schwing, or someone else with the skill to add DX12 or Vulkan hacking to 3Dmigoto. Always possible that a specific game gets someone revved up and interested.

For example, maybe Cyberpunk 2077 is that game? We actually don't yet know about their API, but Projekt Red has a terrific reputation, and this game might be another Witcher3 that just has got to be fixed. By someone. Like always with 3D Club- never say never. (Currently expected to support DX11...)

For the OP, it will really depend upon the new consoles, and how fast the game devs switch APIs for those. If they still support DX11, I would expect a slow rollout because it takes forever to change toolsets. If they force DX12 and/or Vulkan it will then depend upon how the new consoles do. Consoles still drive all new releases of course.


Games that we cannot yet reach:

The Surge 2- Vulkan only. I really wanted to play this one too, but I can wait.
Doom Eternal- Vulkan only.
Star Citizen- Currently still DX11. Moves to Vulkan maybe, someday.
Gears 5- DX12 only.
Red Dead Redemption- Vulkan, or DX12.
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare- DX12 (D3D12on7 for Win7)
Last edited by bo3bber on Mon May 11, 2020 5:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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DJ-RK
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by DJ-RK »

Add the latest Call of Duty: Modern Warfare to that list.

I can't argue that those with the knowledge and ability to make progress in this area are free to spend their time however they choose (I do the same thing when it comes to making or updating fixes, after all), but I think we're past the point of there not being enough games to make it worthwhile and whether to question if this is a trend that will continue onward (absolutely. I'll bet $$$ on Cyberpunk and at least 50% of anticipated upcoming titles that are not running on UE4/Unity to be DX12 and/or Vulkan exclusive). Again, I can't dictate how other people spend their time, but I'm of the opinion that if said individuals were so inclined to do said work that this is exactly the time to be starting since there are dedicated titles to use for testing, and likely a huge wave incoming that we'd be prudent to get ahead of, lest we be caught with our pants down even moreso than we've already become and then it becomes a scramble to get caught up. As such, and from the lack of any sign of current development nor interest, I've come to have low expectation of seeing 3DVision functionality beyond DX11, but will be glad to be made to eat my words.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by RAGEdemon »

Question: Since 3DV can be converted to VR, can we not convert VR to 3DV?

I.e., As rudimentary as the current support for DX12 is with VorpX, can we not somehow convert that to some kind of 3DVision capable display output?

Of course it yet remains to be seen if VorpX actually goes anywhere with DX12 support, but it might be another option worth exploring if alternatives become exhausted...
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by ZePRiNCE »

Necropants wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 9:29 pm Thanks for the update, yeah I believe that's the better way going forward.
Doom eternal, Star citizen, Gears of war 5 and gears tactics and RDR are the games that come to mind off the top of my head. (could be wrong on one or two of those)
Almost all Microsoft Exclusives are DX12 only : Forza, Forza Horizon, Gears of Wars..
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_ ... X_12_games

But it's different for the other companies :)
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Shift-E »

My main worry is these new consoles push to include ray tracing in most games, which means mandatory DX12 in the pc ports. Sure DX11 can be included too, and will be for most of the cross gen titles the first couple of years I hope...but then, including DX11 might gradually get dropped as devs see no reason to include.

that said, its impossible to argue with Bo3b's post. The amount of work involved in such an endeavor, I can only imagine - and the limited amount of 3D engineers able to even perform such miracles. A standalone 3D driver is just as important to the future, or more so...its hard to trust windows or nvidia not breaking our workarounds either.

my weakness is I love cutting edge graphics tech, so I do enjoy new releases. having a DX12 wrapper would allow for ray tracing and RTX tech with 3D with HDR :woot I'd take that over VR all day every day! regardless, I do have a backlog and games I would love to play again, so I am set for a while thanks to the amazing work of the 3DMigoto crew, 3DFM, and all of our incredible shaderhackers. Its just hard not to think about the future, when you are so enthusiastic about a gaming tech the industry is trying its best to eliminate.. :evil:

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Pure Mana Supreme »

May as well add Devil May Cry 5 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider to the list. DMC5 looks stunning in 3D via MasterOtaku's (IIRC) fix via 3DFM 1.75 but necessitates running in DX11 mode, I only got around to trying this game last night and by now I'm on level 9 controlling "V" and the FPS tanked to like 40 FPS @ 50% GPU utilization (RTX 2080 Ti) with 8700k @ 5.1 GHz actual (0 AVX). I had no idea that DX11 combined with 3 core bug would make for a 40 FPS 3D / 80 FPS 2D experience at 2560x1440 (50% GPU utilization). SOTTR is another one, game looks stunning in 3D but the 3 core bug is ridiculous. TimFX7 supposedly has a fix but I can't seem to get it working and I don't know if the problem is because I'm on 1809 because the forum is essentially dead and I'm not getting feedback from hardly anyone.

I'm curious to try updating to 1909 but I'm afraid of having serious problems, anyone care to offer up their opinion on 1909, at least in terms of 3D Vision compatibility? I hear Stereoscopic Player works so that's good news, I reverted to 1809 from 1903 because Stereoscopic Player wasn't working with 1903 like 6 months or so ago.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Pure Mana Supreme »

I apologize for sounding naive but what is the main hurdle for getting 3D Vision to work with DX12? How can more of us help with fixes if it's just grunt work? More and more titles will be DX12 with the next-gen consoles offering path tracing. I would wager that the vast majority of next-gen titles will want to include RT and will therefore be DX12. There may be a title here and there that for whatever reason will still be on the older API but that will be rare. Add the fact that the next Nvidia cards are already rumored to do RT significantly better (I've heard 4x better from one leak, but I question the credibility) and more and more if not most if not all titles coming out in the future may be DX12.

They will also be switching to DX12 because of the fact that newer CPU's from both manufacturers and that of both next gen consoles have considerably greater physical core count and the games themselves will be more complex and require more threads for rendering. DX11 is on it's way out.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by whyme466 »

bo3bber wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 6:18 pmFor example, maybe Cyberpunk 2077 is that game? We actually don't yet know about their API, but Projekt Red has a terrific reputation, and this game might be another Witcher3 that just has got to be fixed. By someone. Like always with 3D Club- never say never. (Currently expected to support DX11...)
Note that Cyberpunk 2077 will use REDengine 4 (next iteration of engine), and introduces ray-traced global illumination, per Wikipedia.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by russellk »

Pure Mana Supreme wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:26 am I apologize for sounding naive but what is the main hurdle for getting 3D Vision to work with DX12? How can more of us help with fixes if it's just grunt work? More and more titles will be DX12 with the next-gen consoles offering path tracing. I would wager that the vast majority of next-gen titles will want to include RT and will therefore be DX12. There may be a title here and there that for whatever reason will still be on the older API but that will be rare. Add the fact that the next Nvidia cards are already rumored to do RT significantly better (I've heard 4x better from one leak, but I question the credibility) and more and more if not most if not all titles coming out in the future may be DX12.

They will also be switching to DX12 because of the fact that newer CPU's from both manufacturers and that of both next gen consoles have considerably greater physical core count and the games themselves will be more complex and require more threads for rendering. DX11 is on it's way out.
Surely this question has already been answered by Bo3b? It's not a even a simple case of whether there are enough games to justify it, it's also a case of why should someone else spend 6 months of their life doing this?
Also, as he said, for longer term support maybe there's a better way.

I might be going off topic slightly and this isn't aimed at you by the way, but I sometimes shake my head when I see comments about the 'great community' from people who probably just download fixes then moan when they don't work. Not enough people say thank you around here when a lot of poeple have done a lot of work to make this even possible and probably for very little recognition and even less money.

Again, sorry for the moan and not aimed at you, probably a bit of lockdown madness going on :-)
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by RAGEdemon »

Very relevant: Unreal Engine 5 Revealed! | Next-Gen Real-Time Demo Running on PlayStation 5

https://youtu.be/qC5KtatMcUw

It would be a shame to resort to playing these games in flat 2D instead of jaw dropping :3D
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by skyrimer »

I think that VR is the way to go, in a year or two we'll probably see HMDs with screens that can be close to our current monitors, they are hardware agnostic, heavily supported and inherently stereoscopic ready. Helixvision is the way to go, Vorpx is a solid alternative but Ralf has the same issues as we do, and we're yet to see what he does about that.

I wonder if Vireio code is of any use for this? Vireio was an open source alternative to Vorpx and the code is available at https://github.com/cybereality/Perception . It's pretty old, but maybe it has some of the work done already to help shaderhackers somehow.
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by DJ-RK »

RAGEdemon wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 2:35 pm Very relevant: Unreal Engine 5 Revealed! | Next-Gen Real-Time Demo Running on PlayStation 5

https://youtu.be/qC5KtatMcUw

It would be a shame to resort to playing these games in flat 2D instead of jaw dropping :3D

Very relevant indeed. If you'll notice, I specifically implied in my last post about UE4 being one of the remaining sources of DX11 titles. I'll bet everything on Dx12 becoming standard in UE5. Unity to follow.

The cutoff point is now in clear sight.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Pure Mana Supreme »

russellk wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:30 am
Pure Mana Supreme wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:26 am I apologize for sounding naive but what is the main hurdle for getting 3D Vision to work with DX12? How can more of us help with fixes if it's just grunt work? More and more titles will be DX12 with the next-gen consoles offering path tracing. I would wager that the vast majority of next-gen titles will want to include RT and will therefore be DX12. There may be a title here and there that for whatever reason will still be on the older API but that will be rare. Add the fact that the next Nvidia cards are already rumored to do RT significantly better (I've heard 4x better from one leak, but I question the credibility) and more and more if not most if not all titles coming out in the future may be DX12.

They will also be switching to DX12 because of the fact that newer CPU's from both manufacturers and that of both next gen consoles have considerably greater physical core count and the games themselves will be more complex and require more threads for rendering. DX11 is on it's way out.
Surely this question has already been answered by Bo3b? It's not a even a simple case of whether there are enough games to justify it, it's also a case of why should someone else spend 6 months of their life doing this?
Also, as he said, for longer term support maybe there's a better way.

I might be going off topic slightly and this isn't aimed at you by the way, but I sometimes shake my head when I see comments about the 'great community' from people who probably just download fixes then moan when they don't work. Not enough people say thank you around here when a lot of poeple have done a lot of work to make this even possible and probably for very little recognition and even less money.

Again, sorry for the moan and not aimed at you, probably a bit of lockdown madness going on :-)
Yes I get it, I've donated to a few people, including Paul Dusler (3DFM) and I've offered and still offer help. It's not rocket science, I know my way around Windows, tell me what to do and I can work.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by bo3bber »

DJ-RK wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 4:43 pmVery relevant indeed. If you'll notice, I specifically implied in my last post about UE4 being one of the remaining sources of DX11 titles. I'll bet everything on Dx12 becoming standard in UE5. Unity to follow.

The cutoff point is now in clear sight.
One thing that has always fascinated me about our group of 3D enthusiasts, is how much people live in the future. Not to give you too hard a time, but there is literally no way to know what is going to happen, but here we are making confident predictions of our impending doom. Then again... It is Spring for those keeping track.

UE5 doesn't even ship for another full year, and will probably slip like virtually every giant software project. They've said specifically that UE5 will run on every platform their support, all the way to aging Android phones. It's not going to be DX12 on an Android phone.

It's pretty unlikely that they pull DX11 support out of UE5 altogether, too much older hardware still uses that, and they want to support it for FortNite. So any given game dev has to consider if they want to go DX12 only. Could happen, I'm just saying that it's not nearly as clear as you all believe.

The lighting effects in UE5 are not using RTX. So that means it doesn't absolutely require DX12 for UE5 builds. UE5 will be like UE4- very flexible in terms of how you ship. Any given dev is not going to be foolish enough to require RTX- the vast majority of video cards cannot do that, and won't be able to for years.


I will continue to suggest that there is no way to know until we see how the new consoles are setup, and what they require. If they continue to support DX11 natively, it will be a very slow rollout of DX12, because only a small handful of developers will care and use it. Rebuilding your entire development process is not simple or quick, and no one is going to willingly take that on unless they are forced to.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by bo3bber »

Pure Mana Supreme wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:16 pmYes I get it, I've donated to a few people, including Paul Dusler (3DFM) and I've offered and still offer help. It's not rocket science, I know my way around Windows, tell me what to do and I can work.
I think one of the best things that people can do to help, is to do actual testing and report results. Testing is super tedious and time consuming, and having a group of people do it also ensures you get better coverage of hardware differences, and find other problems.

If people can be more communicative about what they find, working or not, that would really help all the ShaderHackers. Try stuff, experiment with different setups and settings. Report results both when it works fine and when it fails.


e.g. I just shipped the HelixVision Demo- and no one tried it for 5 days. Turns out it was completely broken, didn't work at all. Russellk let us know, but it was really embarrassing to have it totally dead for people who would try it. That's why I posted here- looking for testers.

Even if you you don't care about the Demo itself, it's also a VR based stereo screenshot viewer.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Pure Mana Supreme »

bo3bber wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 3:28 am
Pure Mana Supreme wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:16 pmYes I get it, I've donated to a few people, including Paul Dusler (3DFM) and I've offered and still offer help. It's not rocket science, I know my way around Windows, tell me what to do and I can work.
I think one of the best things that people can do to help, is to do actual testing and report results. Testing is super tedious and time consuming, and having a group of people do it also ensures you get better coverage of hardware differences, and find other problems.

If people can be more communicative about what they find, working or not, that would really help all the ShaderHackers. Try stuff, experiment with different setups and settings. Report results both when it works fine and when it fails.


e.g. I just shipped the HelixVision Demo- and no one tried it for 5 days. Turns out it was completely broken, didn't work at all. Russellk let us know, but it was really embarrassing to have it totally dead for people who would try it. That's why I posted here- looking for testers.

Even if you you don't care about the Demo itself, it's also a VR based stereo screenshot viewer.
I'm on the waiting list for Valve Index, if I get it next month I can help you test HelixVision if you still need help with that. Do you need help with anything else? How does 3D Vision look in VR by the way? Thanks for all the continued work keeping 3D Vision alive!

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by for3donly »

I pledge 100 USD towards a dx12 or vulcan wrapper effort.
bo3bber wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 6:18 pm
Zappologist wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 2:03 amMany people on the net complain about their backlog, and how their game purchases far surpasses their ability to play the games themselves. For us, real 3D gamers, the backlog problem is less of an issue, as we only play 3D games so the selection is much smaller. Or so I thought until recently, when I took a casual look at HelixBlog. The number of 3D fixes rolling out every month is staggering.
This is another good point I hadn't thought of, which factors into what to work on. With current HelixMods alone, there are on the order of over 900 games that have been fixed in 3D. I've played only a small fraction of those, and have a lifetime's backlog of fully fixed games in 3D, that are easily as good as current new stuff that ships. This is another factor for me personally why I'm not interested in the new APIs- I've already got more than I can possibly get to.

However, everyone is different, and there is always a chance that a new game catches the attention of someone like myself, DarkStarSword, Helifax, ColAngel, Schwing, or someone else with the skill to add DX12 or Vulkan hacking to 3Dmigoto. Always possible that a specific game gets someone revved up and interested.

For example, maybe Cyberpunk 2077 is that game? We actually don't yet know about their API, but Projekt Red has a terrific reputation, and this game might be another Witcher3 that just has got to be fixed. By someone. Like always with 3D Club- never say never. (Currently expected to support DX11...)

For the OP, it will really depend upon the new consoles, and how fast the game devs switch APIs for those. If they still support DX11, I would expect a slow rollout because it takes forever to change toolsets. If they force DX12 and/or Vulkan it will then depend upon how the new consoles do. Consoles still drive all new releases of course.


Games that we cannot yet reach:

The Surge 2- Vulkan only. I really wanted to play this one too, but I can wait.
Doom Eternal- Vulkan only.
Star Citizen- Currently still DX11. Moves to Vulkan maybe, someday.
Gears 5- DX12 only.
Red Dead Redemption- Vulkan, or DX12.
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare- DX12 (D3D12on7 for Win7)

whyme466
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by whyme466 »

Very interesting rumor about potential Cyberpunk VR - see https://wccftech.com/rumor-cyberpunk-2 ... d-vr-mode/.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by sebastatu »

Cyberpunk being dx12, I would not be surprised Horizon Dawn too. As we move past of 2020 and wit the new gen of consolaes. we will see more and more games leaving dx11. Windows 7 supports too. so there is no reacon not to use it with newer games. I would def invest in any kind of wrapper or solution made for it.

thanks,

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by john-glad »

It is also confirmed that the Decima Engine from Guerilla Games will also be DX12 only (Death Stranding and Horizon Zero Dawn).
Offical Specs from Death Stranding:
https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p ... nding/home
And both were Playstation 4 exclusives before so I hoped that they would maybe at least support Vulcan as well and maybe could be supported in the future by the Vulcan wrapper Helifax is currently working on.

But my fear is also that all upcoming games will tend to DX12 or Vulcan only.
Mainly because both new consoles support Raytracing (PS5 + XBox X) and even Cyberpunk only supports DX12 altough its an optional feature and will not support RT on older systems. And the trend seem to go to DX12 instead of Vulcan because most MS exclusives only support DX12.

Also I check the github project for 3DMigoto from time to time and unfortunately it does not seem to be some much actively worked on anymore. (https://github.com/bo3b/3Dmigoto/commits/master).
But I know the reasons and I know that developing such an implementation for DX12 is quite a bit of work and maybe the codebase even needs some restructuring to face the Multithreading challenges of DX12 (like Helifax currently faces with is Vulcan wrapper).

But I would also be very willing to donate towards such a project and hope that it will happen some time :-)

If not using 3D Vision Automatic at all but support SBS (to be able to use it with 3d TVS or projectores) would also be at least a very good start and would avoid the 3 core bug as I think this will also be a problem for the future as the new consoles also have a 8-core AMD CPU and games will maybe tend to use them more in the future.

Me personally I hardly use my VR headset (Oculus CV1 and PSVR) anymore beside some exclusives like HL:Alyx but prefer gaming on my OLED TV with 3D Vision which IMHO is way more pleasent and not so isolated.

I thank this community for all the great fixes in the past and present and all the people who provide the tooling which still keeps this technology alive although Nvidia actually abondened it and with the universal fixes it still can be used even for new games.

I hope we will see some efforts for a DX12 support in the future and maybe also Helifax will manage to have luck with his vulcan wrapper.
Maybe also some combined effort as OS project like 3Dmigoto could be a solution, who knows.
Would be great and maybe only time can tell if this ever happens but it would be great.

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by Chtiblue »

john-glad wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:11 pm
Me personally I hardly use my VR headset (Oculus CV1 and PSVR) anymore beside some exclusives like HL:Alyx but prefer gaming on my OLED TV with 3D Vision which IMHO is way more pleasent and not so isolated.
Same boat here, after the whoa effect of VR and used exclusively my HP Reverb Headset for 2 months, I'm now back to 3Dvision because of confort but mostly of the so much great definition & sharpness of 3Dvision vs VR 4kHp Reverb Headset (great for close object/world but so bad for far object/world), it's always a pleasure for the eyes. At least 2 more generations of VR Headset are needed...
john-glad wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:11 pm

But my fear is also that all upcoming games will tend to DX12 or Vulcan only.
Mainly because both new consoles support Raytracing (PS5 + XBox X) and even Cyberpunk only supports DX12 altough its an optional feature and will not support RT on older systems. And the trend seem to go to DX12 instead of Vulcan because most MS exclusives only support DX12.

Also I check the github project for 3DMigoto from time to time and unfortunately it does not seem to be some much actively worked on anymore. (https://github.com/bo3b/3Dmigoto/commits/master).
But I know the reasons and I know that developing such an implementation for DX12 is quite a bit of work and maybe the codebase even needs some restructuring to face the Multithreading challenges of DX12 (like Helifax currently faces with is Vulcan wrapper).

But I would also be very willing to donate towards such a project and hope that it will happen some time :-)



I thank this community for all the great fixes in the past and present and all the people who provide the tooling which still keeps this technology alive although Nvidia actually abondened it and with the universal fixes it still can be used even for new games.

I hope we will see some efforts for a DX12 support in the future and maybe also Helifax will manage to have luck with his vulcan wrapper.
Maybe also some combined effort as OS project like 3Dmigoto could be a solution, who knows.
Would be great and maybe only time can tell if this ever happens but it would be great.
Yeah Agreed, for now we only could have 2 hopes:

-A success in Vulkan wrapper from Helifax which I have no doubt about that 8), and then Helifax goes for a DX12 wrapper!

- a return from the great sorcerer DarkStarSword to develop a Dx12 wrapper and why not in collaboration with the marvelous Helifax!

And of course with the help of the great shadershackers still there

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masterotaku
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by masterotaku »

Horizon Zero Dawn is going to use DX12: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1151 ... e_Edition/

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by helifax »

Sadly DX12 is not as easy, because of the "locked" nature. Microsoft doesn't provide a decompiler for DXBC like Khronos does for SPIR-V.
If somebody can get a DX12 decompiler working to HLSL (or even the blasted ASM) then maybe I will take a look at DX12 in the future ^_^.
This is the MAJOR block in DirectX12 (as it was with DX9/DX10/DX11). IF this is solved, the rest should be doable :)
http://3dsurroundgaming.com:
- Home of OGL3DVision wrapper & Vk3DVision - Play your favourite OpenGL & Vulkan games in Stereoscopic 3D using Nvidia 3D Vision OR Virtual Reality using HelixVision(https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127310/HelixVision/)
- Home of some of my UHD Surround/Eyefinity/21:9/32:9 Fixes. (Or you can always check http://pcgamingwiki.com/)

Want to contribute to the development of Vk3DVision? You can check my Patreon Page for the project: https://www.patreon.com/Vk3DVision. If you still like my project but don't want to contribute monthly you can always send me a PayPal: tavyhomeppal@hotmail.com.

You can always follow me on Twitter: @OctavianVasilov

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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

Post by bo3bber »


Vaeltaja
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Re: Future of Stereoscopic gaming? DX12, Vulkan compatibility.

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