What most schools don't teach

[Dantesinferno]

Thought I'd share this video, if you haven't seen it already:
[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKIu9yen5nc[/youtube-hd]

[geekmaster]

Interesting coincidence. I just heard a PSA (public service announcement) on the radio today, saying that in the USA, there is about to be a large shortage of computer programmers. I think they were saying we need something like 35% more programmers than are being trained right now.

Perhaps they saw the Oculus Rift kickstarter campaign, eh?

[cybereality]

Awesome video! More people should definitely be coding and they should be teaching it in schools (not just college).

[android78]

This is fascinating thought.
Currently, in schools the basic skills still seem to be Reading, Writing, Mathematics and Art/Craft. These skills HAVE been the most important in the fairly recent history, given the technology that has been available. I'm kind of amazed that basic programming still isn't considered a basic skill.
Just like the other areas, you don't expect everyone to become an expert in it (not everyone is a writer/mathematician/artist), but it would seem that these days the ability to write a simple program is as useful as being able to write was 30 years ago.
My father is a primary school teacher and had the foresight to push for (and get) several computers for his tiny primary school (less then 30 children) back when computers like commodore vic 20 came out, shortly after he started teaching. The programs we wrote may not have become much more then choose your own adventures at the time, but it really was a great tool for teaching the basic ability of breaking down a problem and structuring a solution. That was about 30 years ago!

[zalo]

I agree that teaching programming is absolutely essential in modern schools.

I don't know how often the common person will actually be writing programs, but it absolutely teaches you how to think.

[Fredz]

I'm not a proponent of teaching programming at school, even if I'm a programmer since my childhood.

I don't think it teaches people how to think, as the range of problems you can resolve by programming is actually quite limited, and for most of them some basic maths are needed. And unfortunately most programmers I've met lack these basic math skills, which severely limits their capabilities to solve problems from my personal experience.

I'm a big proponent of teaching logic, mathematics and philosophy though. To me it's a lot more useful in helping to learn how to think, and it can help to handle an extremely varied set of problems, even non-technical ones (ie. critical thinking in everyday situations).

In my programming career I've met a lot of different programmers, and I really can't make a parallel between their programming skills and their critical thinking or capabilities at resolving simple/complex problems.

I think that this video also shows people who were already smart before tackling programming, they didn't get smart because they learned to program.

[geekmaster]

I'm not a proponent of teaching programming at school, even if I'm a programmer since my childhood.

Yeah! If kids were meant to be programmers, the would have been born with a keyboard in their hands! Let the computers program themselves!

[cybereality]

@Fredz: I'd have to disagree. They teach a lot of stuff in school that most people don't end up using in their life (professionally or otherwise) but it helps to let kids understand what they like, or what they are good at, at an early age. I mean, I don't deal with history very often in my job, but that was a topic I had to learn a lot about in school. Or things like science, chemistry, physics, etc. Most people don't use them in their daily life. But they are very good to understand at a basic level.

I would go as far to say that programming, or at least understanding the basics of how a computer works, is probably more important today then most of the stuff they do teach in school. Obviously reading and writing are still very important. But programming, I would say, should come right after that. It does teach you how to think critically and solve problems.

[STRZ]

A good programming book seems to be the Liber Abaci of the times we live in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liber_Abaci

A very interesting video (series) about the history of math:

[youtube-hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk49iM9OT_0[/youtube-hd]

The problems in the public schools is that they teach you how to complete tasks you'd need to know to be a sort of "good slave" for the rest of your life. Not the nature of how things really work, for almost everything they teach you in school the're 1000's of better ways to learn them.

[adventurer]

I really love to learn to code although it is not early to start. I know a large part of our forum is programmer/hacker. Therefore, can you give me some advice to start such as which program should I learn first? Thank you a lot

[cybereality]

If you are just starting out and want to make games, then Unity is probably the best thing right now. You can use syntax that is very close to Javascript, and that will be easier to learn than some other languages (for example: C++, which I'm still discovering things after years). Creating 3D games or applications is still not an easy task, no matter what tools you are using. So expect a learning curve. It's very rewarding, though, when you fnally get something working and playable.

[STRZ]

I really love to learn to code although it is not early to start. I know a large part of our forum is programmer/hacker. Therefore, can you give me some advice to start such as which program should I learn first? Thank you a lot

The easiest way would be probably learn how Python works and once you got it, branch out into object orientated languages like C++ or functional languages like Haskell etc. Python is object orientated and also functional, sort of a mix good to understand the different programming concepts while beeing easy.

It's a common advice for newbies given in most programming forums. There's a a free online course where you can start right away:

http://www.learnpython.org/

You could start to make simple games while getting the hang of the language and keep the motivation http://pygame.org/news.html

Some math for game devs: http://www.gamedev.net/blog/796/entry-2 ... eo-series/

[geekmaster]

Being "old school", I prefer the way this stuff USED to be taught. We started with a firm foundation of basic concepts, and built higher levels of abstraction upon that.

First, simple logic circuits with switches and relays. Then transistors. Then simple discrete IC logic. Then microprocessors. Then switch focus from hardware to software: hex editors, followed by binary machine instructions, then text editors and assembler language, and then C. Depending on when and where, there was also FORTRAN and COBOL, but those hardly matter anymore except in esoteric situations. These days you need to branch out into what is actually in use. If your interest is video games, then python and lua. For large teams, C++ (an OO version of C) is popular. But many shops are switching to managed environments (.NET, mono) that deals with memory management and security issues for you, with languages such as Java or C++. Visual Basic is still very popular in some shops, but Microsoft is trying push people to use C++ instead (a BASIC-like version of C). And there are the esoteric languages such as lisp and haskel that are good for learning to think differently, so you can escape the constraints of conventional programming languages. And there are lots of "pet" languages with almost religious fanboys (forth and its cousins). And don't forget Brainf*ck (there is a letter 'u' in there somewhere):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck

One of the really fun things that really taught me C programming was "C-Robots":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crobots
It pitted your virtual robot control C programs against those of your friends. I developed a consistent winner that simulated stereoscopic vision by alternately taking slightly overlapping radar snapshots (normally 30-degrees), to obtain a very accurate direction to the enemy. It remained the champion amongst many robots until after I moved on, and others adopted my code. Fun times...

[adventurer]

The easiest way would be probably learn how Python works [...]
Some math for game devs: http://www.gamedev.net/blog/796/entry-2 ... eo-series/

honestly, thank you a lot ! It's a pity that the forum didn't has a "thank" button. I will definitely spend my free time to go in to the interesting and challenging journey of programming based on your advice!

[adventurer]

If you are just starting out and want to make games, then Unity is probably the best thing right now. You can use syntax that is very close to Javascript, and that will be easier to learn than some other languages (for example: C++, which I'm still discovering things after years). Creating 3D games or applications is still not an easy task, no matter what tools you are using. So expect a learning curve. It's very rewarding, though, when you fnally get something working and playable.

wow, I just read your answer. Didn't notice your post the first time because I was skimming too fast. I sincerely thank a lot for your experienced advice. It really means a lot to me. I want to both make games and some small applications but I don't have any prior knowledge of programming before (except little Pascal from high school). Therefore, I want the most basic program to start so Which is easier Python or Unity?. Learning to make games in Unity would be my dream but I want a really basic program first then move to Unity later after I master the basic.

[cybereality]

Well if you just want to learn the basics first, then Python is a good place to start. After you get some experience coding you can move on to Unity.

[rmcclelland]

www.udacity.com has some pretty good courses to get started programming. You can start with Intro to Computer Science and work your way up to 3D graphics programming.

I also agree that everyone one should have to learn the basics of programming in school. I started with Turtle Draw and BASIC on the c64 at 8. I'm a mechanical engineer, and my ability to code sets me apart.

I've heard some researchers talk on better ways to teach programming. People really respond to media driven programming, such as taking a green screen photo and learning to change the background. Or making music with code. All the fundamentals can be taught this way and people love it.

[adventurer]

Well if you just want to learn the basics first, then Python is a good place to start. After you get some experience coding you can move on to Unity.

I will follow your great advice. Hope I can get to unity as soon as I can!

www.udacity.com has some pretty good courses to get started programming. You can start with Intro to Computer Science and work your way up to 3D graphics programming.

the website you mentioned is so awesome!! thank you thousand times great websites like that should be more popular. I real wish I could know more websites like udacity and they would have big success.

[geekmaster]

This is the way us "old school" programmers think kids should learn how to program computers (from the ground up):

[youtube-hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWI1CcJM0y8[/youtube-hd]

You can start by designing and building your own game controller.

[Lookforyourhands]

Wow, cool video! ^ That guy really knows his stuff

[FingerFlinger]

Project Euler is also fun for learning about general problem solving/computability.

[STRZ]

This site went online today http://imaginary.org/

IMAGINARY is a platform for open and interactive mathematics. It features a variety of content that can be used in schools, at home, in museums, at exhibitions or for events and media activities. The main contents of IMAGINARY are its interactive programs and its picture galleries.

The platform allows an easy integration of new content, for example of additional mathematical subjects or exhibitions. One main goal of IMAGINARY is to enable you, the community, to participate and to get involved with your own ideas. The core idea is that exhibits are created within the community and exhibitions are organized independently.

This concept and the platform grew from our initial IMAGINARY exhibition, which started in 2008 and has since then been shown in more than 80 cities all around the world. Its huge success and its growing community led to the creation of this platform!

[KBK]

And we where pulling crystals on 8086 and 8086 boards to make 'turbo' versions. had to keep trying different boards, until one worked. Zilog Z80's. dos programming, C/PM software, fortran, pascal, and so on. I got out of the programming and hardware end when 486's were being introduced. I went a few layers down, instead. Atomic.

[geekmaster]

And we where pulling crystals on 8086 and 8086 boards to make 'turbo' versions. had to keep trying different boards, until one worked. Zilog Z80's. dos programming, C/PM software, fortran, pascal, and so on. I got out of the programming and hardware end when 486's were being introduced. I went a few layers down, instead. Atomic.

How do you overclock atoms?

[KBK]

And we where pulling crystals on 8086 and 8086 boards to make 'turbo' versions. had to keep trying different boards, until one worked. Zilog Z80's. dos programming, C/PM software, fortran, pascal, and so on. I got out of the programming and hardware end when 486's were being introduced. I went a few layers down, instead. Atomic.

How do you overclock atoms?

Very very carefully.

Ask them real nice, and they might do it for you.


In da almost olde days:

1) press computer power button
2)press monitor power button (a really cool tatung, if you had money)
3)go make coffee
4)come back and find out that your boot floppy finally failed
5)try to find your back up boot disk
6)find it and try it
7)spare boot disk doesn't work as you bought the Mitsumi floppy drive - could not afford the Panasonic floppy drive. Your friend made it for you on his Panasonic floppy drive. The heads don't match in their track spacing, so your spare does not work.
8) Drive around town for 4 hours, trying to find someone who can make you a boot disk on a Mitsumi floppy drive.

[geekmaster]

... In da almost olde days:

1) press computer power button
2)press monitor power button (a really cool tatung, if you had money)
3)go make coffee
4)come back and find out that your boot floppy finally failed
5)try to find your back up boot disk
6)find it and try it
7)spare boot disk doesn't work as you bought the Mitsumi floppy drive - could not afford the Panasonic floppy drive. Your friend made it for you on his Panasonic floppy drive. The heads don't match in their track spacing, so your spare does not work.
8) Drive around town for 4 hours, trying to find someone who can make you a boot disk on a Mitsumi floppy drive.

Boot floppy? Man, you had it easy. In my days, we had to enter the bootloader in by hand on the front panel toggle switches, and that code ran the paper tape reader, which contained the "real" program. I still have an ASR-33 TTY with paper-tape punch and reader, but I am sure it would require serious maintenance (the grease probably turned to tar long ago). Kids these days do not realize how easy they have it...

When we DID get floppy drives, we drilled holes in the cases over the alignment screws, and we adjusted them every week using factory calibration floppy disks, just so they COULD read each other's floppy disks. Manufacturing tolererances are much tighter these days. My first hard drives only held 5MB (not GB). This computer has 32GB, so it would take more than 6,000 of those hard drives just to create a hibernate file. We may live to see zetabyte flash drives as mentioned in Ready Player One.