Meant to be Seen

By Andres Hernandez

Introduction
General Review
2D Performance
Nvidia 3D Vision Glasses
3D Performance
Ghosting
Nvidia Software Support
Conclusion (For Part I)
Introduction

As was mentioned in the front page news, MTBS has maintained a position of not reviewing 3D hardware because there wasn’t enough in the market, and we didn’t want to give clear advantages of one solution over another when things were at such a young development stage.   Now that nearly every major display maker has a 3D solution of some kind, it makes sense for MTBS to put out credible hardware reviews without concern of how it will benefit or harm the industry.



Our first official hardware review is the Acer HN274H 27” 3D monitor.   Featuring Nvidia 3D Vision support and HDMI 1.4A compatibility, it’s a great starting point for this new MTBS hardware review service.

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Very nice high quality review Mr. Cyberreality. I'm in the market right now for a new kick @ss 3D gaming PC. This monitor looks like a good place to start for that new adventure. I don't need the HDMI feature but its kinda nice when I think that I can make all my 3D gaming equipment portable. Your best write-up yet Mr Cybereallity. Thank you.

cheers everyone

Thanks man! I'm glad you liked it.

Really informative review, and a great read! Great job Cybereality!

Awesome review! I would love to see more hardware reviews.

Thanks! This is just the first of many, don't worry.

I want to see some tests with AMD + IZ3d and PS3. Thanks

AMD tests are in the works, should be up shortly.

nice, waiting for it. And if it really works with ATi grafic cards a tutorial how to enable 3D on it would be awesome

Thank you for your review. I to am looking forward to your final remarks. I would, also, like to say your personal evaluation of this product does mean more to me than what any spec sheet says. Quality 3D begins with getting rid of the ghosting and adjusting for the best image quality. Not all 3D displays are up to this. So I find it significant when I here of a low ghosting display. A low ghosting display is really the most critical factor when choosing a 3D display. It is the number one factor in my prior display purchases. And having a knowledgable 3D expert give his opinion means a lot to me. I hope you do more display reviews the way you see best to do them. Again, great job.

cheers everyone

Part 2 of the review should be up soon. Just doing some final editing. I have made some discoveries (both good and bad) so it will be important to read the second part of the review as well.

Today DigitalVersus got the information from Acer that the sale of this display will be temporarily suspended because of a "bug" that has been identified. NVIDIA explained to DigitalVersus that the bug in question was the very bad ghosting time they had measured in their review of this display.

DigitalVersus also said that they don't see how a correction could be done to this display since its measured ghosting time of 15ms was almost the double of the minimum 8.33ms that would be needed for a 120Hz display. In the article they also explain why activating the overdrive wouldn't be a solution to this problem either, because it would add more "black-ghosting" (blue trail behind moving objects).

Source (in French) : http://www.lesnumeriques.com/non-dalles ... 19349.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmm. I haven't noticed any "show-stopper" bugs. Without knowing the technical details, I think the monitor is acceptable. However if I had seen more of the recent 120Hz monitors, maybe I could make a more informed opinion. But what does that 15ms of ghosting time mean in real-life terms? Is there something I should be seeing? Cause the monitor still looks decent to me.

So what 3D monitor do they recommend? Is there some other 120Hz display that much better? The Planar, the other Acer?

Read the last few pages of this thread. The area's were I have entered the conversation. People are convinced that my Panasonic VT25 is crap. Why? Because they have seen it with there own eye's. Funny, real funny.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=115&t=11127" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I would also, note Fredz. That if you had this monitor in front of you and you wrote that this monitor should be avoided. I would take your word at face value. Our regular forum contributors are extremely knowledgable regarding quality 3D. I trust no other sites in this regard nor do I visit them. I'm a busy family man that loves the 3D experience. I come here for the straight up 3D info.
What I have found tho is if we were all in the same room looking at the same material we would probably agree on just about everything 3D. Writing and conveying quality 3D in a internet forum can lead to misunderstandings. Much like this one.

cheers everyone

Cyber, he's relaying information he has not vetted for accuracy.

Cheers everyone

Its true. Because I read it on the internet.

cheers everyone

cybereality wrote:Without knowing the technical details, I think the monitor is acceptable.

I can understand why you find it acceptable, as you said you didn't see that much different 3D LCD monitors, so it's difficult to make a very informed decision by only seeing one. And this monitor is probably quite good if it's the only one you've seen in this range, probably in the same league than your Zalman or probably a little less convincing concerning ghosting, but probably a better image quality overall.

cybereality wrote:However if I had seen more of the recent 120Hz monitors, maybe I could make a more informed opinion.

Yep, I can quite agree on that, that's your first review and it's difficult to not be impressed by a new monitor in these conditions. The wow effect is always high when you test something new, nobody can throw a rock at you for that. That would probably be a little different after having seen more monitors, but it's nontheless a good -fresh- review for anyone that has no mean to compare this display to others.

cybereality wrote:But what does that 15ms of ghosting time mean in real-life terms? Is there something I should be seeing? Cause the monitor still looks decent to me.

As your screenshots showed, there is some ghosting with this display, the 15ms response time in itself is sufficient to understand that it will exhibit pretty much ghosting, when a 120Hz image need something at least under 8.33ms response time to minimize ghosting.

cybereality wrote:So what 3D monitor do they recommend? Is there some other 120Hz display that much better? The Planar, the other Acer?

From the review at DigitalVersus the Acer GD245HQ was clearly better, but if you didn't see it you really can't know which one is better.

Chiefwinston wrote:Read the last few pages of this thread. The area's were I have entered the conversation. People are convinced that my Panasonic VT25 is crap. Why? Because they have seen it with there own eye's. Funny, real funny.

I didn't see anyone saying that it was crap, I saw it with my own eyes in two different stores and found it really good. And from several professional reviewers (Consumer Reports, DigitalVersus), it has been acknowledged to be the best 3D TV available, so there is really no problem with your set. Heck, if I had the money I would probably have bought it by now.

Chiefwinston wrote:I would also, note Fredz. That if you had this monitor in front of you and you wrote that this monitor should be avoided. I would take your word at face value. Our regular forum contributors are extremely knowledgable regarding quality 3D.

I don't dispute the fact that Cyber know what he's talking about, but as he said he has not be confronted to much 3D monitors for now, I think if he had seen the Planar SA2311W he wouldn't have found the Acer HN274 to be that good. But I can perfectly understand his POV. Anyway I'm quite happy he's started reviewing monitors, when he will have the chance to test more of them he'll be able to make even better informed reviews, probably better than the ones done by professional reviewers in regard to 3D.

Chiefwinston wrote:Cyber, he's relaying information he has not vetted for accuracy.

I've only posted a link from DigitalVersus, I don't know anything more than what I've posted. Considering their background it's most probably true but I've no means to verify that information, I've only posted it "as-is". Anyway I'm not very much surprised considering the ghosting tests I saw for this monitor, but I would still have prefered to see it with my own eyes (even if they're quite aged now ).

Well actually, after more extensive testing, I found there to be a minor (but noticeable) amount of ghosting in certain scenes of certain games. This is not enough to discount the monitor entirely, and was feint enough that I did not notice initially. But I can understand now that there is some amount of ghosting, even if it is acceptable. But it really depends on the game. Some games have almost no ghosting, others have a moderate amount. In any case, the monitor still looks good. But there is certainly room for improvement, and I suppose some other 120Hz monitors may be better. I discuss this a little more in Part II of the review, which should be finished shortly. I have also included a number of full-quality 3D images, so potential buyers can make an informed decision without having to take my word for it.

Just my own opinion: I think the experience on the monitor is the best I have had on the PC for 3D gaming. I still like the Zalman, but this Acer is better in a number of respects. Obviously the resolution is a big improvement, especially over the 1680x1050 model Zalman. Much sharper image and overall more detailed picture quality. The ghosting is hard to call. For some games the Acer blows the Zalman out the water, like with Metro 2033 (which was difficult to play on Zalman due to ghosting). Games like Mirror's Edge seem to be slightly better on Zalman, though. Basically the Acer handles dark scenes better, but is not as strong on bright colorful ones. The ghosting is, however, relatively uniform and not tied to a specific viewing angle. Not like Zalman where you sneeze and all of a sudden lose the "sweet-spot". And size cannot be ignored, 27" is just significantly more immersive than 22". Not saying the Zalman is a bad product, I still like it and would recommend it to people. The image on Zalman is probably brighter, and I stand by the belief that passive gives a more "real" quality to the 3D (since there is no illusion of flickering glasses). So, I can't really say one technology is better than the other. I will say I'd rather game with the Acer, though.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/mon ... or?start=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well what about this?

And I cant find any info regarding a bug with this monitor?

DigitalVersus looks like hack journalism to me.

Chiefwinston wrote:http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/mon ... or?start=8

Well what about this?

Well sounds like that guy was seeing the same thing I am seeing. That's probably what happens when you actually play games and not just run a bunch of canned benchmarks.

Chiefwinston wrote:http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/mon ... or?start=8
Well what about this?

I was talking about professional reviewers, someone commented the inacurracies and errors in this review better than I could do (in short : they don't know what they are talking about) :
http://3dvision-blog.com/review-of-the- ... ment-12557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 3D Vision blog also found that monitor to be quite good and as I said I don't dispute these amateur reviews (except the last one which is erroneous), this monitor is probably perfectly suitable for 3D gaming, as is shown by most of these reviews and people who bought it. But technically it's quite far from being the best, it's even largely below average according to the professional review from DigitalVersus. And probably the reason why Acer suspended its commercialization.

Btw it's no longer available from Amazon, if you search it with "Acer HN274H" or "Acer HN274" you won't even find it in the results, which tends to confirm the info from DigitalVersus. Here is a direct link : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YCMEJU/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the end I think the question is simply : do you want something with accurate colors, decent contrast and acceptable ghosting or do you want the biggest 3D monitor available (27") even if the image quality is below average ? It's up to anyone to answer this depending on their taste, but I think it's better to have all the informations before being able to make an informed decision.

You can read some more "amateur" reviews on the Nvidia forum. Everyone there that has seen it seems to love it.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=f9 ... pic=198315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also notice that the monitor seems to be unavailable at the moment. Maybe there was a bug that only effected some units, you never know.

cybereality wrote:You can read some more "amateur" reviews on the Nvidia forum. Everyone there that has seen it seems to love it.

One of them said that it had ghosting with most games he tried when using an high depth setting. He blamed it on the 3D Vision technology and not on the monitor, which is quite funny when everyone here knows that there is no ghosting with 3D Vision on a DLP projector.

Two other guys said that they had to reduce contrast to the minimum to have lower ghosting, but that it was still visible.

Fredz wrote: Two other guys said that they had to reduce contrast to the minimum to have lower ghosting, but that it was still visible.

Yes, I have found that to be true as well. Doesn't mean the monitor is bad. There are always pros and cons, no product is perfect.

cybereality,
Do you know the way how to trigger the built-in emitter? To work this amd? can you post it?

DigitalVersus= Pay me or I'll write bad sh!t about your product.
Consumers Report= confirmed we will write bad sh!t sbout your product if you don't pay us.

It happens all the time.

cheers everyone

Fredz wrote:He blamed it on the 3D Vision technology and not on the monitor, which is quite funny when everyone here knows that there is no ghosting with 3D Vision on a DLP projector.

This isn't so far fetched actually. It recently came out that the severe "top of screen ghosting" which people have been complaining about for 2 years, actually is not caused by the LCD panel. It was a problem with the Windows USB Hub controller mis-allocating bandwidth for the Nvidia USB emitter. People found hacks where you could quickly plug and unplug a USB web-cam and that would briefly eliminate the ghosting. Other users found using a USB 3.0 port and disabling the 2.0 hub would also solve the problem (or something like that). That is also probably the reason this Acer monitor doesn't suffer from the issue (very much) because it doesn't use USB to sync.

F0nt4n wrote:Do you know the way how to trigger the built-in emitter? To work this amd? can you post it?

To use this with AMD all you need is a compatible card (series 5000 or above). I discuss this in Part II, which should be posted soon.

Chiefwinston wrote:DigitalVersus= Pay me or I'll write bad sh!t about your product.
Consumers Report= confirmed we will write bad sh!t sbout your product if you don't pay us.

It happens all the time.

I don't think this is the case. Different sites or reviewers are just going to have different criteria on which to rate a product. Those DigitalVersus guys are technicians, not gamers. They were looking at the monitor from the standpoint of how accurate the colors/contrast were to some ideal (which I bet 99.9% of products don't meet). If you color-correct photos in Photoshop for a living, this may be a concern. If all you want to do is play some online shooters after you get home for work, this probably doesn't make one difference. I was reviewing the monitor from the standpoint of "is it fun?", "does it provide an enjoyable experience?". And it does. General web-browsing is fine. Heck, I'm on this site most of the time and there are only like 3 colors (gray, white and blue). What does it matter to me if the monitor displays 16 million colors or "only" 15 million colors? Really, is that what makes a game fun? Whether the green on the grass in World of Warcraft is exactly the same color as the grass on your lawn. I would even argue, that an artificial color accuracy could even be surreal and provide even more enjoyment then the colors that are supposedly "accurate". I mean, do you think these game developers code games on professional studio monitors (like they do in hollywood)? Probably not. They might even be testing on 120Hz 3D monitors, as they have with some games like Batman:AA. In which case, playing the game on an "inaccurate" display like this Acer is ACTUALLY THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE SEEN!!!

Hello,
first of all it was a pleasure to read your review.
I can't wait to read the second part because i'm an owner of the 24 inch model and i have some little problems.
I use an AMD card with the monitor (HD6970) and i can play in 3D with tridef drivers without problem on the HS244HQ in full screen but when i try to read a movie with Powerdvd or Total media theatre (both the last release) i always get a smaller video wich not fit the screen.(hopefully it's small but in 3D ^^)
Please these are my first steps in the 3D family help me.
All my drivers are up to date
I'm trully sorry for my English level

Hope you 'll tell me how to use my entire screen (i 'hace tried different resolution or refresh rates with no result,i can not use the scalling from the monitor menu because it's allways grey,when i try to return to windows to go to catalyst for scalling options the movie stop go back in 2D side by side and i return on my desktop in fullscreen)
thx
june

Ah yes, there is an issue with the overscan on AMD cards. I actually should have mentioned that in the review, I forgot. You have to go to the Catalyst options in: TV, Overscan settings, and set it to 0% (all the way to the right).

Hello and tanks for the quick answer.
I' ve put the scalling to 0% in order to have fullscreen when the pc show my desktop.
When i start a game no problem the game run in fullscreen too.
But when i choose a movie either with powerdvd 11 or total theatre 5 the movie plays in 3d only on a small part of my screen (nearly 70% of it) and when i try to go back to catalyst the movie go back in 2D.
I'm sure it's a little probleme easy to resolve but i must have miss something.
Please help^^

The second part is up!

http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=77" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards,
Neil

I still can't play movies in fullscreen mode (it's in fullscreen but the image cover not the entire display)
can you give me your catalyst/powerdvd/totaltheatre or stereoscopic player tweaks please?
I 'm pleased with the gaming experience i just need to enjoy fullscreen movies
Please help a poor girl

Chiefwinston wrote:DigitalVersus= Pay me or I'll write bad sh!t about your product.
Consumers Report= confirmed we will write bad sh!t sbout your product if you don't pay us.

Chiefwinston=badmouth any site that has not the same point of view than him...

Actually Fredz, 3D can be a bit fussy in terms of getting good results. It doesn't suprise me that these guys at DigitalVersus don't know how to go about it.

cheers everyone

They started reviewing 3D displays and games 3 years ago (with the Zalman ZM-M220W in May 2008), by now they have tested more than 50 3D TVs and monitors. They also have reviewed a lot of 3D games using the 3D Vision kit, starting with the first 120Hz LCD 3D monitor on the market (Samsung 2233rz in january 2009) and games like Race Driver GRID, Left 4 Dead or Far Cry 2. They were also the first to consistently use the DDD image test to compare ghosting between the different 3D displays. So yes, I think they know perfectly what they are talking about.

Fredz wrote:So yes, I think they know perfectly what they are talking about.

I'm sure they know what they are talking about. But it is only one perspective. When I am looking to buy a product, I will usually want to read multiple reviews, from multiple sources. Sometimes you hear good things, sometimes you hear bad. That's how you make an informed decision. By weighing the pros and cons, and how that matches your specific needs. You can focus on this one bad review of a product, or you can focus on one good review. Or you could do the smart thing and read all the reviews and make up your own mind. To make this a little easier, I have included full quality, 8MP 3D photos I have taken of the Acer monitor with the 2nd part of the review. These have not been resized or otherwise modified from what came out of the camera. You can save this as a JPS file and view it on your own 3D solution or, better yet, view cross-eye to get the best quality. Granted, the images came out a little dark and the ghosting experience is slightly different than real-life, but they were as close as I could get them with the equipment I have. Hopefully that will allow people to make up their own mind for themselves.