Meant to be Seen

TheHolyChicken wrote:New videos from the LA roadshow:
Short "promo" version (3m45s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyLfCfmcW70
Full length version (1hr23m33s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CLKt2F8tk

After that Video I would back it instandly - when i didnt have done it already.

* But when I see Jan running and speaking after the run, i would like to know what is about "fogging the glasses" inside the rift?
* How long can a untrained Person "play" (running around) a game ? I think after 20-30minutes the gameplay will slow down dramatically.
* Is the Omni compatible with "fitbit tracker" ? - also I would like to see/and documenting "Polar H7 Bluetooth Smart Heart Rate Sensor"?!

RoTaToR wrote:

TheHolyChicken wrote:New videos from the LA roadshow:
Short "promo" version (3m45s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyLfCfmcW70
Full length version (1hr23m33s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CLKt2F8tk

After that Video I would back it instandly - when i didnt have done it already.

* But when I see Jan running and speaking after the run, i would like to know what is about "fogging the glasses" inside the rift?
* How long can a untrained Person "play" (running around) a game ? I think after 20-30minutes the gameplay will slow down dramatically.
* Is the Omni compatible with "fitbit tracker" ? - also I would like to see/and documenting "Polar H7 Bluetooth Smart Heart Rate Sensor"?!

a soccer game has 90 minutes.
Obviously you can't play MP games for hours anymore.
The tactical approach for these reasons would change dramatically.
It would be more like 'hide and shoot' than 'run and shoot'.

colocolo wrote:a soccer game has 90 minutes.
Obviously you can't play MP games for hours anymore.
The tactical approach for these reasons would change dramatically.
It would be more like 'hide and shoot' than 'run and shoot'.

I would welcome a shift in gameplay like this. It can be much more slow and methodical than "Everyone runs around blowing stuff up and getting blown up 5 times a minute".


JanVR: how well does sneaking on the omni work? I don't mean in regards to the noise produced by the actual device, but of you are trying to move in a stealthy manner (lets assume the game is capable of processing such a motion usefully), will the omni work? The one video showed a high friction toes, which makes me think that tiptoing along may not work wrll.

And what about simulating a Wimbledon Tennis final with a no-break-point 5th set that could go for days

Anyway, when Jan talked about strafing, he was not entirely correct when he stated that nobody strafes in real life.
We strafe all all the time, indeed, but not by crossing our legs!
If we want to strafe to the right while looking forward, we simply walk to the right with a natural gait while maintaining our torso and head in the forward direction.
We do it all the time, to pass everyday obstacles, but we don't think about it.

The good news is that this movement is very easily doable in the Omni (so not in the gimnick way that Jan showed us, that is near to useless), but there's the need to at least differentiate between head and feet direction; the best would be to also separate the torso but no game does it, excpet for Arma maybe.
The only games that do this right now are of course HL2 and TF2, but I don't think Jan is using this feature (that's vr_moveaim_mode 4 instead of the default 3) because the sensor of the Omni needs to know the absolute direction the feet are pointing at, and I don't think it can do it right now.
But that's easily fixable, I hope he's working on it too!

HL2 is the perfect game to show off the potential of the trio Omni-Rift-Hydra, because it decouples the aiming from both the walking direction and the head orientation, plus it's a great game!

@JanVR:

as is see many great potential in the Omni i am constantly thinking of how one could get rid of the support ring. it is very good how it is now, but i think it has the potential to become a very sophisticated device.
somehow one should get rid of the support ring.
so here`s my idea.
the Omni center surface would have many small holes/depressions in which small low force magnets(like 1cm) lay that are covered with a very high friction material. the shoe sole would contain many holes as well in which high friction material covered metallic plates lay that are tethered to a spring.
Each time the holes in the sole glide over the counter holes in the Omni the magnets jump up and the metallic plates in the sole jump down, so that both form a firm contact.
When you step off with the foot the magnets fall back in their holes and the metallic plates due to the spring jump up again.
The magnetic contact is only for maintaining the high friction contact. So if you have many of these magnetic high friction contacts i think you could get a very good grip on the Omni and the support ring could get obsolete.
The magnetic force should be low, only to associate the high friction surfaces, otherwise you cannot step easily off anymore. Perhaps a way to make the product cheaper and lighter...
EDIT: the rest of the shoe sole surrounding the holes would have very low friction material.
the friction coefficient of the contact surfaces should gradually increase towards the center
so that you won't stop suddenly at the outer parts of the center.

I went to the backer event last night in LA and got to try the Omni in person. Thanks to JanVR and Simon from Virtuix for the great group demo.

First: yes it is worth it to back the kickstarter

I'm still mulling over my impressions, but I have to say that its surprisingly simple. Once you put on the shoes and get in, it only takes a couple minutes to get used to the walking style. At first it felt like walking on ice, but you start to get used to it. It gets really crazy once you start jogging or running on it. This is probably the best implementation for VR walking that doesn't require any giant complicated mechanical setups. In fact its probably the best implementation for a general treadmill that doesn't require mechanical parts.

Comfort: didn't get to try the harness, but the shoes/surface felt comfortable to walk on (if a bit more resistance)

Noise: didn't really seem like an issue to me, someone commented that it wasn't as loud as playing drums on rockband

Walking sensor: they were using a Kinect, but you could probably sense walking and turning a hundred different ways. The kinect is clunky, as usual, but I think any kind of sensors built into the shoes or the omni will be sufficient. This isn't like the rift where you need 5 kHz tracking.

Software Integration: they were running HL2 and TF2, and basically the kinect was just sensing movement and pressing W. Even with this it was still fun. I don't see an issue implementing this into games, unless you try to do some crazy rendering of your actual legs in the game world. Just map L/R control stick and to your movement on the Omni and your good to go.

TL;DR
When I saw the kickstarter video I was worried that there was more style than substance, but after trying it out, I don't see any reason why this won't be able to come to market and be another integral part of the VR experience.

You guys can feel free to ask me any questions about my impressions

@colocolo: To me, that sounds like a really complicated, maintenance-prone and expensive way of just increasing the friction a little bit, with the (I imagine) rather unpleasant side-effect of making the surface "sticky" to lift your feet off of.

TheHolyChicken wrote:@colocolo: To me, that sounds like a really complicated, maintenance-prone and expensive way of just increasing the friction a little bit, with the (I imagine) rather unpleasant side-effect of making the surface "sticky" to lift your feet off of.

well somehow you have to pay the price for a more elegant solution, that's for sure.
sounds complicated, but i don't think that it would be expensive.
Plus, if you connect a voltage to the magnets you could even detect the foot direction when the voltage changes at contact.
EDIT: i did not talk about increasing the friction a little bit.

I'm with the chicken on this one. I don't even think it solves the problem, if you're gonna fall over, a few little magnets on your feet aren't gonna stop you!

@Colocolo: I'm still not sure what that is supposed to be achieving.

well, this isn't meant to be for safety reason. The problem with the Omni is that you need high friction at the center to move forward. the support ring gives you a bit momentum for that.
the high friction surfaces on the magnets and metallic plates allow to generate a momentum in horizontal direction as the magnets and the metallic plates cannot move in horizontal direction.
as there is no vertical force that could press the magnets down it would be ideal.
the magnets only are there for making a bond.
it would behave like a switchable high/low friction surface.

Forgive me, but I'm not really understanding how the magnet solution you described is going to be better than simply having an area in the centre of the Omni that has a passive higher friction (or even if higher friction is desirable at all). Why is it beneficial to be able to dynamically switch from high to low friction? It may be super great, but I'm just not getting it.

TheHolyChicken wrote:Forgive me, but I'm not really understanding how the magnet solution you described is going to be better than simply having an area in the centre of the Omni that has a passive higher friction (or even if higher friction is desirable at all). Why is it beneficial to be able to dynamically switch from high to low friction? It may be super great, but I'm just not getting it.

yeah, to increase the friction towards the center would make no sense. if you have low friction at the outer sides of the center you would slip when making a step.
well your foot has to come to halt at some point, otherwise it would slip away. LinusTechTips explained that very well in his review.
i don't really know exactly how it would work perfectly , but it maybe a solution to get rid of the support ring.
i personally would prefer a upholstered simple cabine and knee pads for safety.

The Omni already has shoes that have higher friction toes from the rest of the foot. As the foot comes into the centre, reaching the end of it's backwards motion, the distribution of weight I'm sure is going to shift more onto the toe than the heel, and so friction will increase.

seems that the Omni is much more silent on a carpet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywbnjp6gLmI

24 hours left now and getting close to the stretch goal also.
Still some spaces left for $70 less than the retail price.

Thanks, Djesko. Yes, now less than 12 hours away from the end of our Kickstarter and less than $10k away from our $1.1MM stretch goal. Help us reach our goal and spread the word:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/194 ... orite-game

Also, in case you are at SIGGRPAPH 2013: we will be showcasing the Omni this Monday morning at the VR Event starting at 9am. See you then!

About 12 hours to go. Excited to see if we get that 1.1M mark. ~$8,000 away.

I just had a thought.
The omni tray is designed to hold a hydra, right? And it looks like it has a depression in it that the hydra base would fit in. How will the STEM influence things?

The Omni reached its stretch goal. 5 hours left to go.

Congratulations again, Virtuix/Jan! TRAVR stretch goal reached and more. Was fun reading the comments and updates. Will be waiting for more juicy information. ^_^