The status of ViiWok

[JoeReMi]

Great! Now with that out of the way, can I reassert my enthusiasm for the ViiWok Deva ODT. I would love to see this design come to fruition. In 12-16 months there will be a lot of people with consumer rifts and STEM systems looking to throw money at someone with a light, inexpensive locomotive solution!

[Paladia]

I still think that a final version of the Rift will not be launched and will be available only as incremental updates for some time, because the wireless/display combos in mobile systems will keep the pace high enough.

VR is not only about gaming, there are fields where absolute minimum latency is not that important.

I would have to disagree. The roadmaps and designs for major phone companies are often locked for years before they launch, it takes a long time to design, test, and manufactures millions of phones.

Don't you think that will be the case before long though? If VR takes off and there's a large public demand for it, the mobile phone market will likely catch on and make a move. They have the advantage of a fully integrated solution that people will buy anyway, as well as having massive research departments that produced updated hardware several times per year. As an example, they have HD screens, by the time Oculus gets a HD screen, they'll likely have even better screens.

Dedicated VR devices may very well become obsolete, at least for the mass market.

[MSat]

Don't you think that will be the case before long though? If VR takes off and there's a large public demand for it, the mobile phone market will likely catch on and make a move. They have the advantage of a fully integrated solution that people will buy anyway, as well as having massive research departments that produced updated hardware several times per year. As an example, they have HD screens, by the time Oculus gets a HD screen, they'll likely have even better screens.

Dedicated VR devices may very well become obsolete, at least for the mass market.

Comments like these make the assumption that VR HMDs will always be based on mobile electronics (and that's only because of the Rift. AFAIK, no other HMD relies on mobile hardware as much). Just because the Rift uses a tablet/phablet display doesn't mean it's an ideal long-term solution. If VR picks up, then not only will companies be trying to improve in obvious geeky areas like resolution and tracking technology, but things that are just as important for wide audience adoption - like weight and form factor. If you use a mobile phone, then you're stuck with a Rift-like design. By no means am I saying the Rift form factor is terrible, but it's certainly not ideal either. All those people that claim mobile devices strapped to your face are the (only) future of VR are not forward looking enough to see the benefits specialized VR hardware could provide, and are stuck with the vision that all HMDs will somehow only be slight variations of the Rift DK. CastAR proves my last point - the only way for a mobile phone company to compete with that is by making a similar accessory which, surprise, isn't actually a phone, but a specialized device.

[Paladia]

Don't you think that will be the case before long though? If VR takes off and there's a large public demand for it, the mobile phone market will likely catch on and make a move. They have the advantage of a fully integrated solution that people will buy anyway, as well as having massive research departments that produced updated hardware several times per year. As an example, they have HD screens, by the time Oculus gets a HD screen, they'll likely have even better screens.

Dedicated VR devices may very well become obsolete, at least for the mass market.

Comments like these make the assumption that VR HMDs will always be based on mobile electronics

I'm pretty sure all HMDs will stay mobile. Stationary HMDs like the Virtual Boy are a thing of the past. If anything, they'll become more mobile and wireless, where the ones developing and researching mobile electronics will have an advantage. Be that the usage of mobile projectors, mobile flexible screens or mobile virtual retinal displays.

Perhaps if we reached the point of neural interfaces they could become stationary again, but that is way, way into the future.

[TheHolyChicken]

Don't you think that will be the case before long though? If VR takes off and there's a large public demand for it, the mobile phone market will likely catch on and make a move. They have the advantage of a fully integrated solution that people will buy anyway, as well as having massive research departments that produced updated hardware several times per year. As an example, they have HD screens, by the time Oculus gets a HD screen, they'll likely have even better screens.

Dedicated VR devices may very well become obsolete, at least for the mass market.

Comments like these make the assumption that VR HMDs will always be based on mobile electronics

I'm pretty sure all HMDs will stay mobile. Stationary HMDs like the Virtual Boy are a thing of the past. If anything, they'll become more mobile and wireless, where the ones developing and researching mobile electronics will have an advantage. Be that the usage of mobile projectors, mobile flexible screens or mobile virtual retinal displays.

Perhaps if we reached the point of neural interfaces they could become stationary again, but that is way, way into the future.

I think by 'mobile' he means 'smartphones'. MSat is making the point that it is probably foolish to assume that the VR HMDs of the future will continue to use mobile phone screens. I definitely agree with him - the Rift is using a smartphone panel right now, but it's not unlikely the display technology could completely diverge, with VR going down an entirely different display technique/approach.

The recent reveal of "Avegant"s new prototype is a perfect example - it apparently does not have a screen, and instead uses "micro-mirrors" to shine light directly into your eyes(?).
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/oculus-rif ... 4-10-2013/

[MSat]

@Paladia

TheHolyChicken is right. I did not mean that VR systems will become immobile like the VirtualBoy (In which case, you could say it would no longer be VR), but that cutting-edge VR of the future won't be able to leverage (at least) mobile phone display technology. That is, unless phones change from being handsets to being headsets such as Google Glass, but that's not what people are thinking when they talk about using cellphones for VR is it? My point is that it's simply just silly to say purpose-built VR HMDs are senseless when we can just stuff our cellphones in some kind of holder and use that instead all because that's kinda/sorta what the Rift DK is. This also makes the assumption the cellphone manufacturers will implement the hardware technologies required to push VR forward. I can imagine the laughter that would fill the board room when the CEO of Samsung/Nokia/etc tries to convince the board of directors that they need to invest large sums of money in their lineup of high-end smartphones (which, btw, are considered obsolete after a year) to incorporate hardware features to make them the best they can be for VR.

[JoeReMi]

Maybe if there are any new developments regarding the ViiWok, Attreyu could start a new thread. This one went west of the topic quite a while ago...

[Attreyu]

It would be the third thread haha There's no problem with people talking. About the Viiwok, I'm at the third prototype model, hopefully the last, lol. It seems such a simple task in theory but it's ridden with all sorts of issues when it comes to actually building it, but I guess it's something everyone who's building something from scratch is having. I enjoy it though, because I learn new things on the way and can alleviate them as they come up, especially since I can now walk and move almost as before the accident.
I'm basically having quite some problems because I can't find a material strong (rigid) enough to give the desired resistence to the frame while keeping light enough to be affordable for shipping and mounting.
I have one prototype made of steel, one made of alluminium which is also retractable/telescopic and a lighter one made of PVC plastic. Each has its strength and weakness - the first is badly designed because you could hurt your knees when walking, the second is having screws at the joints and it keeps going in all directions when you use it and the third is the best so far but I'm still testing whether it should have its own base for walking on (and killing any noise in order not to disturb the neighbours) or should I use some sort of suction cups for smooth surfaces that would permit the user to fix the Deva anywhere with a smooth surface (tile, parquet, ceramic floors, etc.)
So what can I say, when I figure out which one is best suitable, I'll let you guys know !

[Attreyu]

This is basically the only problem left to resolve, albeit quite a serious one.
Apart from that, design-wise, I have managed to find a solution in order not to use a complicated and uncomfortable harness. Also the sensors are functioning quite well, they are analog so there is no latency involved (this time I mean it haha).
It should function quite well and I think you will like the result, hopefully.

[MSat]

I'm a bit surprised that you have found the types of flat and smooth surfaces you mentioned above to be usable. From my bit of experimentation last year, that always made me feel like I was dragging some sort of heavy object tied to my waist. Maybe good for exercise, but by no means did it offer a natural sensation of walking. A surface with an upwards curvature (somewhat like the Omni and others use) helped immensely. Surface material is also extremely important, and IMO, there's nothing used in typical house constructions that would be suitable - they all have far too high friction. Yet, too low friction and it's like walking on ice, which a good way to twist your ankle. It's this factor that helps you realize how brilliant the Omni solution is. Except for the possible use of special footwear, I just don't see it possible to create a compelling experience using something like someone's tile floor.

[Zoide]

I'm a bit surprised that you have found the types of flat and smooth surfaces you mentioned above to be usable. From my bit of experimentation last year, that always made me feel like I was dragging some sort of heavy object tied to my waist. Maybe good for exercise, but by no means did it offer a natural sensation of walking. A surface with an upwards curvature (somewhat like the Omni and others use) helped immensely. Surface material is also extremely important, and IMO, there's nothing used in typical house constructions that would be suitable - they all have far too high friction. Yet, too low friction and it's like walking on ice, which a good way to twist your ankle. It's this factor that helps you realize how brilliant the Omni solution is. Except for the possible use of special footwear, I just don't see it possible to create a compelling experience using something like someone's tile floor.

I don't think that really applies to the Viiwok Deva, since it uses special shoes with rollers on them. You can see photos of one of the early prototypes here: http://viiwok.com/gallery/

[MSat]

^ah, thanks. I had missed that. As I've stated above though, simply having a really low friction surface is problematic too. Also, without a curved surface you end up with a lot of vertical motion while walking, which might make tethering a bit trickier.

[Attreyu]

^ah, thanks. I had missed that. As I've stated above though, simply having a really low friction surface is problematic too. Also, without a curved surface you end up with a lot of vertical motion while walking, which might make tethering a bit trickier.

It's possible, though you are somewhat right about plane surfaces being slippery. Using wheels you can control the ammount of friction though by using different wheel materials (rubber?).

The vertical motion is not an issue per sé, but the fact that you're constantly pulling your own weight - thus the reason why the frame must be very solid. The first concept was using inclined surfaces and I might get back to it - this would permit the elimination of special shoes altogether - because the slippery, inclined surface would actually become advantageous in eliminating unnecessary traction, but it would bring the lateral motion into question (straffing without actually wanting it, lol). After all, I'm not building an Omni clone.

[JoeReMi]

It will be stable and have a fixing system. No worries, it's been taken care of, as any other design issues you may think of.

[Attreyu]

It will be stable and have a fixing system. No worries, it's been taken care of, as any other design issues you may think of.

Exactly.

[anon84]

once you have the frame, you could throw a wiz dish in and have a system. more of an 'if only' idea, not serious. no-one backed the wizdish and it was way more expensive than I was expecting.