Pls help reviving old 3D Vision setup.

[raidboy]

Had working 3D Vision system windows 10 with 1050ti, NVidia 3D IR emitter and ASUS PG278QR.
Since then got new monitor, Sony M9.

Trying to revive 3D Vision setu, i re-installed 452.06 driver with DDU and Driver for IR emitter from network. Also installed the PG278QR INF for the monitor.
When i run 3D Fix manager, it complains of not finding the IR emitter.
When i run the NVidia Setup Wizard and/or click on enable 3D, then the wizard says it does have the IR emitter. But then it offers me only CRT or this vision epxloration option. Aka: does not like the monitor.

I could not make the 3D driver work. It upgrades itself but when it tries to bring up its main menu, it terminates and closes it windows with something like "out of memoy" (16 GB system with 75 free).

I could not find good URLs for EDID override, so i am just guessing i just needed to install the INF file. But maybe there is more to it, patching etc..

Any help welcome. This is a maze.

[treeeddd]

I just check the rting review on this monitor: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/sony/inzone-m9, and it doesn't look like it's going to be fast enough for 3d vision to work on it. It also doesn't have backlight strobing. So far all IPS type panels from last year aren't fast enough for 3d vision.

This year there are faster IPS monitors coming out that should be able to work with 3d vision. For example the ROG Swift 360Hz PG27AQN and Acer Predator 27" WQHD 360Hz should be fast enough for 3d vision to work on it. It also received a ULMB2 update not too long ago that will cut down on the crosstalk as well for 3d vision. Unfortunately they are marketed as high end gaming monitors, so they are really expensive. They aren't officially(obviously) supported for 3d vision, so it's uncertain how they will work on 3d vision via edid_override.

If you already have a pg278qr, which is already a very good QHD 3d vision monitor, then I would just keep that setup and get a faster video card for it. The samsung odyssey G7 would be a nice upgrade in a 32 inch QHD size, and the 3d vision image quality is pretty good. It's just needs the 3d glasses to be tuned in to your setup. I found it can vary slightly in how the refresh rate of the 3d glasses syncs to the monitor. And the G7 can be found at a reasonable price as well. The downside though, the G7 has alot of quality control issues so you may have to play panel lottery. For 3d vision on the G7 though, it can't be beat for what it deliveres (unofficially), when it's working properly.

We'll have to wait and see until reviews come out for these fast IPS panels being released this year. Let's hope they can get it right, and QD-oled monitors could be possible as well as the fullscreen brightness will be increased in the 2nd gen panels on 2023, and if they can implement a BFI mode with it.

[raidboy]

Thanks for the insight, but i was primarily trying to figure out if i could even get 3D vision to work for me with a non-supported monitor.
You seem to have done it, so could you help me to identify what i did wrong ? How did you manage for 3D vision to accept the non-supported monitor ? Which steps did i miss ?

Alas i only have space for a single 27...28" monitor on my desk, but of course, with the current state of affairs, i will not yet sell the PG278QR, but i do need 4k/HDR for video stuff, so i really would like to upgrade to such a monitor. Right now i have also ordered a Cooler Master Tempest GP27U.

Wrt to your evaluation and thoughts on monitors:
Wrt to the frame rate: Are the IR glasses from NVidia even able to go above 144Hz or 160 Hz switching ? Or do you know how you could hack the setup so that you could repeat each eyes frame twice in succession before switching the IR ?

Did you experience any of the officially supported monitors, e.g.: PG278QR and felt it was too slow a framerate for your eyes ? Because it was fine for me. But then again, my comparison is HDMI 1.4 1920x1080 24Hz FullHD 3D on my Epson 5050ub projector. And that is i think just 96 Hz (have to find the review specs again).

Wrt to flashing: Given how active glass 3D is not supported officially, i canot see how any manufacturer would implement nowadauys any optimizations for it, such as flashing the backlight LEDs. Or can you think of any non-3D reason why that would have to be implemented ? If the flashing is exactly the technical solution to also reduce motion blur in 2D high frame rate, that would be lovely. I think i saw one youtube review about the M9 saying that it had very low motion blur.

Both the Sony M9 and Cooler Master GP27U do also have high maximum brightness due to their HDR support. Of course, i have not tried to fiddle around how to get to that maximum brightness with just SDR 3D content, but that of course is exactly what i would like to do if i can justget 3D Vision to accept the monitor. And of course, i can see how i would then have to look into all your prior tweaking insights and maybe still not be satisfied like you in the end, but i still have a few weeks before Amazons return month is over )

[treeeddd]

i was primarily trying to figure out if i could even get 3D vision to work for me with a non-supported monitor.
You seem to have done it, so could you help me to identify what i did wrong

check this thread viewtopic.php?t=25545&sid=c47ab8f4413ac ... cc19441c29, this should help you figure out how to do it.

Alas i only have space for a single 27...28" monitor on my desk

So far I don't know of any 4k monitors that will support 3d vision unofficially. I have not tested out any myself. Probably a good idea to just keep the pg278qr if you want to retain 3d vision.

Are the IR glasses from NVidia even able to go above 144Hz or 160 Hz switching

.
You can tweak the 3d glasses via nvtimingED so it can do any refresh rate you like. The issue with higher refresh rate is that the pixel response time need to be near oled pixel switching. Also, due the high refresh rate, the 3d effect from the glasses is diminished because it doesn't keep the 3d images separate in the each eye long enough to produce the 3d effect. Get a VR headset, they will do 3d gaming as well.

Did you experience any of the officially supported monitors

yeah, I actually have a few officially supported ones, 2 really old ones and 2 later ones.

24Hz FullHD 3D on my Epson 5050ub projector. And that is i think just 96 Hz

Lower refresh rate can produce a better 3d effect, but the shutter speed is more noticeable and eye straining as well. 120hz 3d vision seems to be the sweet spot, yet 100hz can yield better 3d results. The biggest thing is backlight strobing, it helps alot with the perceived motion clarity and stronger 3d effect. But the G7 does produce a pretty damn good 3d image still.

Given how active glass 3D is not supported officially, i canot see how any manufacturer would implement nowadauys any optimizations for it, such as flashing the backlight LEDs. Or can you think of any non-3D reason why that would have to be implemented

Pretty much a good backlight strobing implementation will help with the motion clarity even in 2d gaming, it's a must add on feature for LCD monitors if they want to compete with OLED type displays that don't need it to have better motion clarity, but must rely on high refresh rates to achieve it. So 3d vision can work on IPS panels with good backlight strobing in 2023, yet to be seen.

M9 saying that it had very low motion blur.

Still not fast enough for 3d vision unfortunately. I know because I've tested fast IPS panels from last year, they aren't there yet. Trust me, you won't find an IPS from last year that's going to work. Manufacturers buy panels from only a handful of lcd makers, they put the magic sauce into these displays to make them faster. In 2023, we will see more of these fast IPS panels be put into all different monitors. Will need to wait for reviews to see if they are fast enough for 3d vision gaming. The G7 is already a couple of years old, and still one of the fastest lcd panels out there. Hope they bring a newer G7 panel eventually.

I would like to help you get your monitor working with 3d vision, but it's not going to work well, too much crosstalk.

[raidboy]

In your references post you write:

"Of course, the 3D Setup Wizard wouldn't let me continue without an appropriate gaming monitor. I disabled driver signature verification and was able to load the .inf file for the Asus PG278Q as the driver for the Samsung Odyssey G7. The 3D Setup Wizard recognized it! So far, so good. Then the custom .inf installed successfully for both the MSI PS321QR and the Asus PG329Q, but getting them recognized as 3D Vision-capable was a little more complicated"

I need to reproduce this exactly i think, because i think it failed for me:

1. Exactly which NVidia driver do you use ? Unpatched 452.06 ? Or something else ? Just install fresh after cleaning up everything with DDU ? If not, then i would appreciate exactly what steps you took here

2. Exactly what driver do you use for the IR receiver ?

3. Where did you get the ASUS PG278Q driver from ? URL would be nice. I used the one for my PG278QR which i downloaded from ASUS, but you wrote "custom .inf", so i wonder. I also could install that .inf file for the monitor without disabling driver validation, given how it is an authentic ASUS driver. I guess this is maybe where my mistake is ? But windows did before this just recognize the monitor as generic windows monitor and afterwards as ASUS PG278QR.

4. You use Windows 10 ? (just checking)

I think these are the key steps to overcome f***ing NVidia protections. The rest then of all your excellent work i should hopefully be able to reproduce a lot easier.

[treeeddd]

custom 3d vision monitor driver INF: https://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2025

permanently disable driver signature for INF: https://www.minitool.com/backup-tips/di ... 1k7_toofq&

regular windows 10 with the last official 3d vision driver, yes the 452.06. 3dmanagerfix for the 3d vision drivers, including IR receiver.

Alright, it's all up to you now. The answer to all your questions are in this forum. Let me know how it looks when you get it all working.

[raidboy]

Many thanks, will take a go at it.

Btw: When you said for me to get a faster card, and i looked at my low-profile options...
What do you think about this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BG8Y3KCM


The quattro drivers seem to support everything needed, so no or less hacking needed ?

https://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/ ... -guide.pdf

Does not mention HDMI 1.4 frame packing though for my projector...

[treeeddd]

3D vision stopped support on the rtx 2000 series, and not the super models. Anything newer won't be as easy as getting the correct 3d vision supported gpu. I even got my 2080 super (not 3d vision support) to install with the 2080ti drivers and it worked with 3d vision. The older 3d vision drivers do not have support for newer cards. I know the newest nvidia studio drivers do seem to have some capabllity for 3d vision though it's not seamless. A bit more difficult to get the G7 working for a non supported 3d vision gpu.

I'm waiting for the prices to come down by alot on the newer gpus before I buy one. 3d gaming is possible with the geo-11 fix on the newer gpus.

Be aware that the older model rtx2000 gpus had a memory chip problem that would fail over time, it's been fixed on the newer models. The ones that came with the early micron chip were the problem. hynix and samsung memory chips didn't have the issue. My 6gb 2060 came with hynix. These gpus are pretty cheap now used. The super models have the newer memory type, and can be used for 3d vision if the older 3d vision gpu drivers are installed.

[raidboy]

"3D vision stopped support on the rtx 2000 series" - Does it mean it will work with older drivers ? Up to which version ? Are you talking about the NVidia consumer drivers ? Because the document URL i gave is for the enterprise drivers.

I thought that $250 was a reasonable price. GeForce 1650ti is same price.. Not reasonable ? AFAIK, there is no faster low-profile card anyhow. Ok, there is one ridiculously overpriced A4000, but at marginal speed gain.

And GeForce 1650ti can not use the Enterprise drivers, and the Enterprise drivers do not seem to have disabled all the 3D option. Instead they're still documented in the newest version (except HDMI 1.4). Hence the URL above, just in case you had not seen that enterprise driver doc.

I ordered one of those cards to check it out. Is there a way to check the memory vendor without taking the card apart (e.g.: from software ?).

And now i understand the EDID override driver stuff. Except when taking the EDID override from the forum (the latest one posted, for the ASUS), my Sony M9 is giving me the finger, oops: a black picture (can not sync). So there must be some incompatibility in the timings *sigh*. Even though that forum EDID only goes up to 144 Hz. But an EDID analyzer web page did complain about the details of the timing of that EDID override.

Either i trial run multiple EDID files from the forum and see if one works, or i figure out which part of the EDID must be from the supported ASUS monitor so the NVidia driver will be happe, and which one i can merge in from the M9 itself. I am hoping that the "supported" check in the ASUS driver is only for the vendor and similar non-timing information, but that the timings could be taken from the monitor one actually uses. Is that true ? Anyone tried to do this type of merge to create custom EDID to trick the NVidia "supported monitor" check ?

[treeeddd]

Not sure if 3d vision was supported with the enterprise drivers. I can't help you with that. gpu-z by techpowerup can show you the gpu specs.

Sorry I really can't you try to figure it out. I only know the method for the G7 edid_ovrride, it's been explain twice over on this forum so that should help you troubleshoot.

It would be better if you use a 3d vision compatible gpu as well, the hardware you are using isn't compatible with 3d vision. Success rate is 0%. Don't even waste your time trying.

[raidboy]

Well, i could not resist to have that A2000 for 24 hours, but now its back with Amazon. For a low-profile PC i think there is no officially supported 3D vision card significantly faster than the 1050ti, or is there ? The 1650ti are just marginally faster, and thats about it. Or am i wrong ?

I could indeed not make 3D vision work with the A2000 and the enterprise driver. The driver offers a bunch of 3D settings, and documents even more. I am especially annoyed about all the mentioning of the IR Emitter in the current professional driver documentation even though it does mention the IR emitter several times. So at least i sent a complaint mail to the email listed in https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers ... life---faq. Oh well. /dev/null, i am sure.

It is still curious why 3D Vision does not work for newer card. The way i understand it, the 3D Vision software/driver is a shim layer between the application and the NVidia driver, which then adds/enables stereo rendering. And the way i understand it, all professional cards do support stereo rendering - and also different dislpay modes. Except that seemingly the individual applications do need to drive this. As opposed to having it happen transparently from 3D Vision.

Turning this around: How difficult would it be to re-develop a 3D shim layer that does the same as 3D vision ? Might be an issue with getting the necesary interleaved display modes or the like, but i would assume you should at least be able to do SBS on a single screen, and AFAIK, that is a format also supported by many VR glasses.

[treeeddd]

It is still curious why 3D Vision does not work for newer card.

The newer rtx3000 &rtx4000 do partially work with the lastest nvidia studio drivers. Then just use 3dfixmanger to install the rest of the 3d vision drivers.

Vr headset as far as I know used a different method to display SBS games in vr, which doesn't require 3d vision compatible gpu. I'm new to VR too, figure it would be a good time to jump into 3D in vr.

[3DNovice]

....

[raidboy]

Thanks for that info. I think i am slowly getting the picture. The old vs. new driver and Geo-11 is still all only for "supported" GPU, though, right ? So as far as you know, newer GPU can not be made to work at all ? If thats the case, then what is the fastest GPU that would work ?

Btw: I have a low-profile 1050ti. My current systems constraint is the low-profile PCIe socket. And 1650 is not sufficiently faster.

[3DNovice]

...

[raidboy]

Thanks for the info. I think i will be fine with my old rig for a good while as i do like to play primarily adventure games, so performance is not so much of an issue for me, and i also like to buy games on gog, which means they're often not very new I actually started to play 'life is strange' when i thought that 3D stereo would be nice again. But thanks a lot for the points/pointers. You should write an FAQ post from all you answered me.

The 3D display issue is more problematic to me because i think i would really want 4k/hdr. So i guess i'll start gaming on the projector and then try to understand the tools you mentioned in your posts about the monitor evaluation. Worst case i'll have to sell off a 4k monitor i buy now in a year or two to get something also useable for 3D. But certainly i'll keep my PG278QR for now.

[3DNovice]

...

[GuiseppeFritsch]

In your references post you write:

"Of course, the 3D Setup Wizard wouldn't let me continue without an appropriate gaming monitor. I disabled driver signature verification and was able to load the .inf file for the Asus PG278Q as the driver for the Samsung Odyssey G7. The 3D Setup Wizard recognized it! So far, so good. Then the custom .inf installed successfully for both the MSI PS321QR and the Asus PG329Q, but getting them recognized as 3D Vision-capable was a little more complicated"

I need to reproduce this exactly i think, because i think it failed for me:

1. Exactly which NVidia driver do you use ? Unpatched 452.06 ? Or something else ? Just install fresh after cleaning up everything with DDU ? If not, then i would appreciate exactly what steps you took here
slope game
2. Exactly what driver do you use for the IR receiver ?

3. Where did you get the ASUS PG278Q driver from ? URL would be nice. I used the one for my PG278QR which i downloaded from ASUS, but you wrote "custom .inf", so i wonder. I also could install that .inf file for the monitor without disabling driver validation, given how it is an authentic ASUS driver. I guess this is maybe where my mistake is ? But windows did before this just recognize the monitor as generic windows monitor and afterwards as ASUS PG278QR.

4. You use Windows 10 ? (just checking)

I think these are the key steps to overcome f***ing NVidia protections. The rest then of all your excellent work i should hopefully be able to reproduce a lot easier.

When running the Nvidia Setup Wizard and enabling 3D, if it only offers CRT or vision exploration options and doesn't recognize your monitor, it may indicate an issue with monitor compatibility.