Best Shutter Glasses avaiable?

Don't know the first thing about S-3D? Just bought your first pair of 3D glasses? Trying to figure out what to buy? Post HERE!
Post Reply
Isaak_Johnson
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Best Shutter Glasses avaiable?

Post by Isaak_Johnson »

I have been looking at upgrading my system to support some Shutter glasses for Stereo 3D and at the moment I feel relatively confused as to the performance and reliability of the few brands and types that are out there right now, and which ones are supported by the drivers on this website.

*I have already done a few searches in this forum already, but I did not find what I was looking for. (Mostly specific issues for a specific problem.) If there is another topic that discusses this same issue I would love to have a link to it.*

Some basics about my system:

Windows XP Professional
Intel Core 2 Quad CPU @ 2.40GHz
2 GB of RAM (4 GB with pagefile.)
2 SLI Nvidia GeForce 8600 GTS
NEC MultiSync FE2111SB Diamondtron Monitor

Basically I'm looking to go for some shutter glasses and I'm having trouble matching drivers with the glasses, or matching glasses with any support at all.

Under many or your expert opinions, what are some of the better shutter glasses available that I should look at when deciding what to purchase, and what drivers are best associated for them?

Thanks in advance for your time. :D
H4CK3R
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Post by H4CK3R »

I am actually in the same boat. My Gaming Rig, is a 4.2 E8500 duel core, 6 TB HD, and a ATI 4870 GPU w/ 4 gig ddr3 ram., 50 Inch Plasma 3D ready. Windows XP... Currently using the DDD Shutter glass's... which are OK... but I would love to have a better built of glasses.

I was thinking why hasn't anyone come out with a rechargable USB/ Bluetooth enabled shutter glasses.... No more spending a but load on battieries, and having them break when tring to get them in.

What are some of the better looking Shutter Glasses. Kinda new toe verything and would love some sudjestions.

H4CK3R
User avatar
CarlKenner
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:22 pm

Post by CarlKenner »

There are no nvidia drivers for your desired setup (your graphics card is too new).

You will need to use iZ3D drivers, TriDef drivers, or (really old) eDimensional drivers.

None of these drivers really support straight page-flipping stereo, or page-flipping with a signal on the VGA pin, because that is impossible for anyone except the graphics card manufacturer (nvidia).

Which means your shutter-glasses need to work in either: line interlaced (perhaps in an interlaced screen resolution), over-under, blue line code, or white line code mode. Line interlaced support gives you the best driver support (although it cuts your vertical resolution in half).
Copy this code to clipboard: 0o1rp5zk then go to http://mtbs3d.com/naw to register. Use the code for $5000 startup bonus, and to support Gaza.
Image
Isaak_Johnson
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Post by Isaak_Johnson »

CarlKenner wrote:There are no nvidia drivers for your desired setup (your graphics card is too new).
And the new Nvidia drivers that do support my video cards don't support XP. Nvidia is pretty much out of the question unless they decide to bring back XP support.
CarlKenner wrote:You will need to use iZ3D drivers, TriDef drivers, or (really old) eDimensional drivers.
None of these drivers really support straight page-flipping stereo, or page-flipping with a signal on the VGA pin, because that is impossible for anyone except the graphics card manufacturer (Nvidia).
I think I read somewhere here on this forum that there is some driver update coming out soon that would remedy this issue, is that the iZ3D drivers?
CarlKenner wrote:Which means your shutter-glasses need to work in either: line interlaced (perhaps in an interlaced screen resolution), over-under, blue line code, or white line code mode. Line interlaced support gives you the best driver support (although it cuts your vertical resolution in half).
I honestly have no idea what any of those modes are and I haven't heard of them until now. I'm gonna go do some research and find out more about these.

Thanks for your quick response! :D
User avatar
CarlKenner
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:22 pm

Post by CarlKenner »

And the new Nvidia drivers that do support your video cards don't support anything other than Zalman 3D monitors.

Line interlaced means that the game, or some "driver" that hacks into the game's Direct3D/OpenGL rendering calls, draws the first line of pixels across the screen from the point of view of the left eye, and the second line of pixels from the point of view of the right eye, and the third line from the left and the fourth line from the right, etc. Or vice-versa. The hardware then magically transforms that signal so the lines go to the correct eyes. I don't know exactly how shutter glasses hardware dongle transforms line-interlaced into entire-left-frame, followed by entire right frame, but they must do so since that is how the monitor needs to display it for shutter glasses to work.

Interlaced screen resolutions on the other hand are an ancient historical thing that everyone thought had died out. In the olden days there were monitors or graphics cards that couldn't display 1024x768 unless they only drew every second line on the first pass, then did another pass which drew the other lines. The original CRT TVs all work like that. The passes are called FIELDS, and there are usually two fields to every frame. In TV jargon, the opposite of interlaced is "progressive scan", but in computer jargon it is just considered normal (or called "non-interlaced"). If you modify the registry, or some such thing, I think you can get the nvidia graphics driver to choose an interlaced display mode. I have no idea whether it is helpful or necessary to use an interlaced resolution when using shutter glasses or frame-sequential hardware with line-interlaced input.

Over/under means the shutter-glasses dongle has a way of pretending that the top half of the screen was a complete frame and that the bottom half of the screen is actually the next frame. Since there is normally a gap in the signal between the two frames, the game or driver has to draw a bunch of black lines between the top half and the bottom half to simulate the time it takes for a vertical refresh, and the hardware dongle inserts the signal to do a retrace. The monitor will think it is doing twice the frame rate at a bit less than half the resolution. It means the game or driver draws the view from the left eye to the top of the screen followed by some black lines followed by the view from the right eye.

Blue line code and white line code means the game or driver draws a line across the bottom of the screen, in either blue or white. The line goes a quarter of the way across for one eye (I can't remember which) and three quarters of the way across for the other eye. It tells the shutter-glasses which eye is which, so the glasses know which eye to blacken. The advantage is that even if the game frame rate gets out of sync with the monitor frequency, the game can still tell the glasses which eye. Otherwise the glasses would get out of sync. Unfortunately many glasses or adapters won't understand the code.

iZ3D are trying to create drivers for shutter glasses, but like everyone else they have the problem of not being able to guarantee the game frame rate always matches the refresh rate, and not being able to control a pin on the VGA port that some glasses or adapters use to indicate when to swap eyes. So they can currently only support the methods I described above that avoid those two problems. I think they have drivers that work with those methods I mentioned.

eDimensional claimed to be working on new drivers. For a great parody, "the eDimensional Files", watch (starting from 2:30) Gamus Cleverus episode 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXRi9ohj8w0

Anyway, I have no experience with shutter glasses, so check with other people. I only know how to make games that support different formats, and which formats it's possible for software to work with without nvidia's help.
Copy this code to clipboard: 0o1rp5zk then go to http://mtbs3d.com/naw to register. Use the code for $5000 startup bonus, and to support Gaza.
Image
Isaak_Johnson
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Post by Isaak_Johnson »

Thanks for describing those different modes for me, I was able to find out about Line Interlaced and Over/Under, but I couldn't find anything on the other types.

After digging a bit more I think the 1.09 beta drivers from iZ3D are my best bet, and it seems they are working pretty decently so far from the reviews and comments on them.

But now I'm kind of back at my original question. I know about some brands such as eDimensional and a couple others, but I'm not sure at to which brands of shutter glasses are the good quality ones, and which are cheap pieces of junk.

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of the different glasses that are available?
isaactoo
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:07 pm

Post by isaactoo »

I am also wondering, for instance, eDimensional says that theirs works with LCD monitors (they consider 85Hertz to be the adequate, but all the monitors I have are at 60, but using window's settings can push it up to 75). So I am wondering if there really is anything different about eDimensional Hardware/software...but there is a huge price difference between theirs and others. eDimensional sells their kit with their drivers for $70 for 1 pair of wired glasses, but on Ultimate3Dheaven's site you can get two glasses&splitter for about $20 + dongle $10...and download the eDim drivers (or other).

Glasses&spitter http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/2wi3dglspadd.html
Dongle http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/pcdongle.html
eDim driver http://www.edimensional.com/support_updates.php

Other kit - http://cgi.ebay.com/3D-Gaming-Virtual-P ... m153.l1262
Is it all just due to marketing? or is there an actual difference in quality?
Tril
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:52 am
Location: Canada

Post by Tril »

Using shutter glasses with a CRT monitor was the most popular and easy way to get stereo 3D a few years ago. It has lost popularity. My guess is that companies that still have old shutter glasses in stock are getting rid of their stock by selling them very cheap.

It depends on the LCD monitor. On some of them, you won't be able to sync the glasses to the monitor. I've read reports of people getting some success on some LCD monitors but I never saw a list of LCD monitors certified to work with shutter glasses.

I recently tried shutter glasses on a model of a cheap brand of LCD monitor (Xplio) and I was never able to get it to work. My guess is that the output frequency of the monitor is not the same as its its input frequency and/or there might be a delay between the input and output and/or the pixel latency was too high. I did the testing by putting a CRT monitor and a cheap LCD monitor side-by-side and I used a VGA splitter to send the same frame to both monitor from the same video card output. The glasses displayed stereo 3D on the CRT monitor and the LCD monitor displayed two different frames on top of each other in both eyes.

There was many companies selling shutter glasses in the past with almost the same few design and almost all used the same few LC shutters. That means they probably all got their plastic molds from the glasses frames in the same few factories and they got the LC shutters from the same few factories. The difference was mainly in the features supported by the dongle and in the software. Some companies don't fit into that description, mainly those that sell at a premium price to universities for research or professionals clients.

eDimensional has roughly the same glasses frame (ugly and does not fit well over glasses) as others, the reason why it was popular was because of their software.

I don't like the cheap glasses that are currently on the market. They all have small LC shutters so they can't be used for very big screens from very close (it's not that bad because you would probably have to sit too close for comfort for this to cause a problem), they give a greenish tint to everything and don't fit very well over glasses. Some companies are working on making better glasses but there's none available on the consumer market so far as far as I know.
CPU : Intel i7-7700K
RAM : 32 GB ram
Video card : GeForce GTX 980 Ti
OS : Windows 10
Display : Samsung UN40JU7500 Curved 40-Inch UHD TV with shutter glasses
HMD : Oculus Rift

Image
isaactoo
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:07 pm

Post by isaactoo »

Tril wrote: I recently tried shutter glasses on a model of a cheap brand of LCD monitor (Xplio) and I was never able to get it to work. My guess is that the output frequency of the monitor is not the same as its its input frequency and/or there might be a delay between the input and output and/or the pixel latency was too high. I did the testing by putting a CRT monitor and a cheap LCD monitor side-by-side and I used a VGA splitter to send the same frame to both monitor from the same video card output. The glasses displayed stereo 3D on the CRT monitor and the LCD monitor displayed two different frames on top of each other in both eyes.
Do you remember what frequency in Hertz Windows was set to? (just curious really)
Tril wrote: There was many companies selling shutter glasses in the past with almost the same few design and almost all used the same few LC shutters. That means they probably all got their plastic molds from the glasses frames in the same few factories and they got the LC shutters from the same few factories. The difference was mainly in the features supported by the dongle and in the software. Some companies don't fit into that description, mainly those that sell at a premium price to universities for research or professionals clients.
Soo...instead of getting the cheap dongle from who-knows-where for $10, I could get the eDim dongle for $30 here http://www.edimensional.com/product_inf ... ucts_id=54
(and download the drivers from their website)
Tril wrote: I don't like the cheap glasses that are currently on the market. They all have small LC shutters so they can't be used for very big screens from very close (it's not that bad because you would probably have to sit too close for comfort for this to cause a problem), they give a greenish tint to everything and don't fit very well over glasses. Some companies are working on making better glasses but there's none available on the consumer market so far as far as I know.
Are ELSA ones any better?
http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/elwi3dgl.html

Thanks for all the info
Isaak_Johnson
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Post by Isaak_Johnson »

Thanks for the info Tril, your concentrated liquid excellence is showing. :P

Basically in short the eDimensional glasses are pretty much the same as the glasses sold by other companies.

But you mentioned that you don't like the cheap ones on the market with small LC shutters and a green tint. Do the eDimensional style shutter glasses fall into the cheap category or the good quality category?

You also said that the main differences were in the features supported by the drivers and the dongle, what type or brand of dongle is the best if some of them have different features than others?
User avatar
Freke1
Certif-Eyable!
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:40 pm
Location: Wake Island

Post by Freke1 »

The glasses / dongle that looks like eDimensional's are the same as them.
They tint like this: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/826767/my ... /efp_video
but You can compensate some by adjusting Color Correction in Nvidia's control panel or on the monitor.

As You can see in the video You need some old stuff to use these shutter glasses at the moment.
The shutter glasses for the 3D HDTV's are different and Nvidia/Viewsonic is going to sell some new style wireless
shutter glasses and LCD monitors (120Hz not 60Hz) soon.

The eDimensioonal's and others are for the old CRT monitors (with a high refresh rate).
They are just getting rid of their stock I think. The "work with LCD monitors" statement is not true.
Tril
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:52 am
Location: Canada

Post by Tril »

isaactoo wrote:
Tril wrote: I recently tried shutter glasses on a model of a cheap brand of LCD monitor (Xplio) and I was never able to get it to work. My guess is that the output frequency of the monitor is not the same as its its input frequency and/or there might be a delay between the input and output and/or the pixel latency was too high. I did the testing by putting a CRT monitor and a cheap LCD monitor side-by-side and I used a VGA splitter to send the same frame to both monitor from the same video card output. The glasses displayed stereo 3D on the CRT monitor and the LCD monitor displayed two different frames on top of each other in both eyes.
Do you remember what frequency in Hertz Windows was set to? (just curious really)
I tried all the refresh rates the monitor supported and I also played with the settings of the monitor to see if I could get it to work. I was unsuccessful. That does not mean that it does not work on all LCD monitors on the market but you are very more likely to be unsuccessful on finding one on which you get satisfactory results. Even if you found one on which it worked, it would probably ghost (each eye sees a bit of the other eye frame) heavily because of the latency of the LC of the monitor.

You can find a list of shutter glasses here : http://www.stereo3d.com/shutter.htm
The last time that list was updated was in 2005 but it's probably almost up-to-date because except for very expensive glasses, shutter glasses have not changed much recently.
Many of those are not sold anymore. If you look at the pictures, you will notice that some of the glasses are identical even if they were sold by different companies. That's what I meant when I said that some glasses were roughly the same.

It seems like Samsung korean division is also working on shutter glasses. Some users posted a picture before in this thread. Here's that picture : http://www.mtbs3d.com/gallery/displayim ... ?pos=-1034
I've not heard much about those glasses. They look more stylish than most current shutter glasses and they look like they have a wide viewing area. I found a picture of someone wearing them here.
CPU : Intel i7-7700K
RAM : 32 GB ram
Video card : GeForce GTX 980 Ti
OS : Windows 10
Display : Samsung UN40JU7500 Curved 40-Inch UHD TV with shutter glasses
HMD : Oculus Rift

Image
Isaak_Johnson
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Post by Isaak_Johnson »

Ok now I've hit a new roadblock that's a little off topic, but I think it should be okay.

Just a few days ago I ordered myself some 3D Shutter glasses that are basically the same as the eDimensional glasses, but at a much more reasonable price.
Just today I got them in the mail and I got them set up and hooked to my computer.

But Now I'm stuck at a driver issue again, I was under the impression from the "Guide for Beginners - tutorial" topic above that the iZ3D drivers were going to support other monitors than their own after version 1.07, so I have the 1.09 beta loaded up and all it does it tell me I don't have the right monitor hooked up.

Is there something I'm doing wrong and the driver should work, or did I accidentally misunderstand the above topic and the driver was never compatible with my monitor?

Any help would be appreciated.
User avatar
Okta
Golden Eyed Wiseman! (or woman!)
Posts: 1515
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:22 am

Post by Okta »

The driver searches for an IZ3d lcd screen on startup but then (if you chose full installation) you should have other steoro methods to select from. If you are using a crt monitor i have read that interlaced will work with your glasses.
Welder
Certif-Eyed!
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:36 pm
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Post by Welder »

Yes, that message is just for the iZ3D mode. The other modes are not monitor dependent. But please note, that shutters really only work on CRT's at the moment. LCDs run at 60hz which is not fast enough.
Isaak_Johnson
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Post by Isaak_Johnson »

Don't worry Welder, I know that shutter glasses are CRT only, and that your CRT should be at least 100 hertz to prevent eyestrain.

Right now though I'm just having trouble getting my glasses to work with the iZ3D driver at all, I'm not even sure that the LCD's inside my shutter glasses are actually even shuttering either.

Edit --> Well I've gotten myself a step further and I have been able to get my glasses functional. I ended up using the eDimensional E-D Activator to get my shutter glasses to start flickering like they should, but of course it isn't synced with any games, but it did work perfectly with the iZ3D drivers Dynamic Test.

So until iZ3D can tap into the Nvidia cards to get their driver to sync properly, I'm pretty much stuck like a compact in a snowy ditch.
H4CK3R
One Eyed Hopeful
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Post by H4CK3R »

Well I have done it again... went to place battiers in the Elsa style wireless 3D glasses and the little prong broke AGAIN, tho this time i wasnt able to re solder it back together and get them to work. I bought mine from DDD.. and yet again, they do not reply to my emails or phone calls... So I am looking to buy a differnt pair... I spent 150 bucks for the drivers and the glasses from these clowns and then anouther 5.99 per game ( that don't work ). Spent almost 200.00 dollers with them...

I think I am going to leave all this mess alone till Samsung, Nvidia or ATI come out with glasses. You would think after spending any amount of money with a company they would at least try and help you. Not take your money and run.

I am back on the market for some 3D Wireless Glasses, that will work well with my Samsung 50 inch plasma. If this was the best anyone can come up with, then I am afraid the 3D industery is a complete failure. Who wants to have to replace 59.00 glasses every month.

The perfect glasses in my mind would be something alittle more solid. Built in USB rechargable connection. Who cares if they are alittle bit bulky, as long as the wearer gets the desired effect. What really sucks is that I had family coming into town this weekend, and I was really looking forward to showing this off... Kinda hard to do with only one pair of 3D glasses.

I am out...
User avatar
Freke1
Certif-Eyable!
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:40 pm
Location: Wake Island

Post by Freke1 »

Thx, good to know :x
Post Reply

Return to “I'm New To Stereoscopic 3D!”