What will a post-Oculus world look like?

[Oneironaut]

I think the biggest hurdle to a truly immersive experience right now is the lack of a haptic interface. We don't even have any idea about what kind of a solution it would be. It's a problem that's completely unsolved, even though the visual side has now been "cracked".

[boone188]

I think the biggest hurdle to a truly immersive experience right now is the lack of a haptic interface. We don't even have any idea about what kind of a solution it would be. It's a problem that's completely unsolved, even though the visual side has now been "cracked".

Yeah this problem is really tough. The likely candidates are all pretty expensive, complicated. and just plain impractical.

We could use magnetics attached to the body. We could use magnetic fields to manipulate ferrofluids. We could use exohaptics.

What we really need are inexpensive materializers

[Oneironaut]

What we really need are inexpensive materializers

Nanomachines !?

[laast]

As long as it's not limiting what you can do by being in VR all or most of the time then I don't see the issue.

If you have everything, then you have nothing.

A lot of people here (and a part of myself too) think VR will be great because we could have everything we ever wanted, we could realize all of our dreams. Then, real life will appears boring, sad, and finally useless.

I think it's a mistake, a chimera. Like wanting to be immortal, we want something that our mind could never handle. Our mind is full of desires, and thinking we could reach the Happiness by satisfying all of our desires is a dead end.

A peaceful mind is a mind freed from desire.

Like I said, VR should remain an entertainment, a tool, and not an escape for a better world.

[ThePhilosopher]

I've got great expectations for VR but thinking that it will fulfill all your dreams is a bit unrealistic...
Conversely, seeing that only like a tool underestimates a lot the power of VR. VR is way more powerful (in terms of possibility to change the society, change your mind itself) than the creation of TV, greater than the invention of the internet for sure.

VR is not an escape, it's the solution. The solution for what the planet is tranforming into: an enormous cesspool, with the population rising exponentially, pollution everywhere since everybody now claims his right to the american way of life. Not to mention the advent of capitalism and competition everywhere, longevity in good health even decreases now. It's looking good...

[KBK]

The answer is pretty simple, really..

Pinata?

Or May Pole?

Is there a difference?

[geekmaster]

Human evolution in a post-Oculus world:

[Likay]

Hopefully it will be more scientific than this experiment. This clip is a parody of course but originates from a true story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH97lImrr0Q

[San]

I think the biggest hurdle to a truly immersive experience right now is the lack of a haptic interface. We don't even have any idea about what kind of a solution it would be. It's a problem that's completely unsolved, even though the visual side has now been "cracked".

Well. One solution is nanorobots in the brain, but we don't have anything close to that capability in nanorobotics yet.
Another is something like existing neural implants for senses (cochlear and ocular implants). Professor Kevin Warwick did something similar by linking up a device to his nervous system, allowing him to feel feedback from a robotic hand. His wife also had an implant as well and they briefly shared some sense perception over the internet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8HeFNJjuj0&t=15m25s

15:25 is where he talks about that. Other interesting things earlier in the video too though.

[colocolo]

Prisoners get an Oculus Rift+Virtuix Omni Combo to resocialize.
Hmm.....perhaps Palmer Luckey wasn't that wrong that VR could change society.
Sooner or later responsible departments will notice that opportunity and potential.
The virtual world could have a meditative and enlightening effect on the prisoners in a way that they perhaps will realize whats truely important in the world. Of course they wouldnt be allowed to play Call of Duty.
The potential here is really great.

[colocolo]

One ml or cm³ pure DNA can hold 1 Zettabyte of information.
I could imagine a 1 Zettabyte DNA - ROM Matrix.
1ZB could hold 10,000,000 km² (thats the entire USA) of individual textures (100MB per m² in UHD).
I wonder if humanity is ever going to take this into consideration if it would be possible.
Thats sounds quiete utopic i know and its questionable if you need such much individual texture data since you dont have the time to visit so many places or even remember them. We problably need only 1 Petabyte-1Exabyte and then repeating several megatextures to create the impression you are on a real planet. I know i am only speaking of texture data and am excluding 3D data. (Its only a rough fun thinking approach considering floor as almost flat.)
Since some research groups are already working on 'lab-on-a-chips' made of graphene and 2 nm wide nanopores to read the infos from the throughgoing DNA strand i can imagine that in future these devices could become more mature with millions of pores and folded like a endoplasmatic reticuluum.
On the other hand gene synthesis currently is very slow, like 20,000 basepair/day. To synthesize a Zettabyte Matrix it would probably need something like 1 Giga-Peta basepairs/day to achieve a reasonable synthesis time. Copying would be done with missappropiated cell populations or whatever, Polymerase chain reaction to potentially create millions of copies. But writing or synthesizing needs to be done only once.
I have found out that DNA is really the only and best way to store the biggest amount of data you can imagine. THinking the bottom-up approach. If you want to store one bit on each molecule you would need to control it somehow. If you have a gas or a fluid with 10 raised to 21th power molecules you need somehow to get hold of them. You could create tunnels and nanostructures, but really that would take too much effort and take up many space. DNA therefore IMO is probably the most natural and effective way to get control of that vast informations because the informations are all nicely tied up in a chain you can pull like a thread through a hole.
A hybrid storage between a 1 ZB DNA ROM storage and a one EB rewritable Memristor array (2,5nmx2,5nm cells on a 4x4inches double sided whatever disk ) would be appropriate to storage also physical manipulations in the Matrix.


EDIT: That is all rubbish.
Its absolutely not necessary to store so many data since our brain potentially can only hold, if you count all synapses together, 1 Petabyte of data.
So you would forget anyway the most things and repeating the 3D texture data therefore would be sufficient.
Fortunately 1 PB disk were already invented this year by an australian research team but they see absolutely no reason to market their technology today.

[colocolo]

Nanobots that are injected intravenously and navigate through our very,very fine and complex capillary system to our brain cells. Postulated 30 years ago they now seem to become a reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=660oel93vZA

watch this most awesome TED talk IMO. They already exist, its a question of how good they become.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5KLTonB3Pg

what will happen if they get to a much larger size of 30cubicmicron(size of bloodcell) containing an 1 Mbit of memristor(which are basically neurons) array for storage, computing and contain also a 1 picoWatthour supergraphenebattery thats rechargeable wirelessly.
IMO the most probable access to a brain interface within the next two decades.
This idea of a brain interface is really amazing , exciting and probably the best way to interface neurons
properly.

[Dilip]

what will happen if they get to a much larger size of 30cubicmicron(size of bloodcell) containing an 1 Mbit of memristor(which are basically neurons) array for storage, computing and contain also a 1 picoWatthour supergraphenebattery thats rechargeable wirelessly.
IMO the most probable access to a brain interface within the next two decades.
This idea of a brain interface is really amazing , exciting and probably the best way to interface neurons
properly.

That’s terrifying, think of what "VR VIRUS" can do with your brain? Have you played "SYNDICATE"? I think one should never go to this length for entertainment VR, except dying bed decease cure of course if that’s last resort.

[colocolo]

what will happen if they get to a much larger size of 30cubicmicron(size of bloodcell) containing an 1 Mbit of memristor(which are basically neurons) array for storage, computing and contain also a 1 picoWatthour supergraphenebattery thats rechargeable wirelessly.
IMO the most probable access to a brain interface within the next two decades.
This idea of a brain interface is really amazing , exciting and probably the best way to interface neurons
properly.

That’s terrifying, think of what "VR VIRUS" can do with your brain? Have you played "SYNDICATE"? I think one should never go to this length for entertainment VR, except dying bed decease cure of course if that’s last resort.

you are right. one should never connect these delicate systems with a greater network, even if we one day live in a nearly perfect peaceful world.
I think this entertainment form wouldnt be anymore entertainment. you literally would be in a 2nd reality wher you can feel touch, move on two feet, four feet,fly,swim and all without exhausment and pain.
the funny thing about it is that it could really be in our range also costwise. How many square microns fit into a square mm silicon/graphene/molybdenit/stanene/whatever chip? right one million. Nowadays a square millimeter chip cost about 30 cent(how many nanobots you could buy). and in future you are going to have fabs-on chips that are going to produce many things with so less material in comparison to multi billion$ plants. its awesome... i cant wait for the future!
http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=31758.php

[Archimid]

For most of us, vision is the most important way to understand the world that surround us. Our brain is capable, through the eyes, of receiving billions of photons every nano second , and instantaneously interpreting that signal into thought. As humans, we have devised ways to store information and read it in 3 dimensions, Time, x and y. That's what we call text, the written language.

When we write, we arrange photons in a 2 dimensional code that we can read through time. We have trained ourselves to instantly extract information from text. Writing is not an easy skill to acquire. Although we can extract meaning from text instantly, we then have to add considerable computation to store that meaning, like memory palaces and all kinds of mnemonics. Basically we add an additional dimension to be able to store the information we read. Why is that?

We perceive a 4 dimensional world. Our brain has been optimized, since the first neuron that evolved, for a 4 dimensional world, yet because of technology limitations, we encode our information in 3 dimensions. So, perhaps there is a way to encode information in 4 dimensions, Time,x, y, z. Not writing. Beyond writing. Some way to arrange objects that convey meaning instantly and can be stored in our brains much more efficiently than mnemonics. There must be a way. This will revolutionize the speed at which the human race advances its collective knowledge.

Regrettably, this will require training paramount to learning how to read. For kids wont be difficult to learn, in fact it should be easier due to the elasticity of their brain. For adults it would be much harder but the early adopters should be richly rewarded ( minus the few who would lose their minds on the process) .


How this would change the world? In futuristic sci fi, children learn quantum mechanics in third grade, given the efficiency of their learning methods. That future is close.

[colocolo]

hmm..... i think an AI that actually will be capable of understanding your innerself could be an intelligence amplifier.
some researchers found already out that those signals can be found in the auditory cortex and they already encoded almost a clear voice. So if you had an omniscient AI with which you could talk all day long and ask questions about so many things it would be quiet a good thing for all. Besides that we could do telepathy. Would require getting used to it.
So if a child had an AI teacher it could boost its intellectual properties very fast and by its own pace
and of course it could experience all in situ VR lessons.
I have looked up some data about the brain. Actually the whole body contains 100,000km of capillares from which 600km are in the brain. they are split up in 100 billion branches(only in brain) over every 40µm. A neurons body measures 5µm. So what does this mean. Yes, nature already has build a perfect infrastruture for a BMI. They are everywhere. But still there remains a so called brain blood barrier which only few drugs till today can surpass. Normal peripheral capillares contain 'windows' or rifts but the capillares of the brain actually have no openings . instead necessary substances have to pass through the cells of which the capillares are made of, so called Endothels. they behave like a filter.
But i think if neuroscientists today measure brain waves and encode them from the upper cortex surface of the brain signals taken from the endothels of the capillares (a few microns thick) should be much clearer.
On the whole i think a nanobot brain interface could change the world forever and ring Utopia in.
Its very simple. If everyone suddenly would be capable to touch his super awesome city or carribean island and harem........... the whole materialistic world would loose almost its whole value instantaneously,
which if you start to believe it for a few minutes makes a little sad but on the other hand could be super relieving and could tell us who we really are and what we really want.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1713 ... m-graphene
a FM transmitter made of a graphene and only a few microns wide.

[Dilip]

hmm..... i think an AI that actually will be capable of understanding your innerself could be an intelligence amplifier.

I am not agree as AI that actually capable of understanding your innerself entering your conscious and merging in you will not be your judge but will become another you.
it will be your virtual mirror a electronic form of your persnality will be as innocent and as naive as what you are at that given point of time when great merger took place.

becoming intelligence amplifier is possible only for another AI which is not part of you free from you still connected with you which is feeded with more 'experinces' and comparative data of 'Code of absolute human Justice and depth of knowldege imaprted on Humanity from begining of human intelligence'

which if you start to believe it for a few minutes makes a little sad but on the other hand could be super relieving and could tell us who we really are and what we really want.

No it won't tell you who you really are and what you really want but i
t wil surely fullfill your unfullfilled desires that are limited to experince you are craving for. it can't tell you what you want as what you want is always situation that arised from what are you living in and what you have learned in your whole journey called life till you reach point of that particular 'i want' desire. you really can't want some thing which is not known to you.

let me give you example

i know about plane, car luxury villa or super sexy woman i can have desire or want for enjoying them, but what if some thing which i never learned in my life or something which has existance not known to me can i want that? No.

More clear example

Can Caveman in 10000BC want typewriter? he never known any prcess like typing (BTW typewriters are now missing link)


AI can also not tell you, who you really are know why?

as that can be judged after your death only comparing all your thoughts and deeds with "Ideal code of conduct feeded in that AI" which will again be fed by some human only so that to can not be absolute error free..

[colocolo]

those materialistic goodies were only an example to describe the situation of average Joe excluding me.
anyway i would find such a world extremly interesting. you just have to imagine it , think of now being in this VR world, your real body laying somewhere on a chair. realize that it could become real. (technically)
A desire to live in a paradise? desire sounds so negative and harem (this could also be a harem for women) too. its not about desire, its about living,
on a carribean white sanded island feeling sand on your feet, heat on your skin, playing sopccer with your friends, laughing, having sex with women, diving in the ocean.............
its about taking humanity to a next spiritual level..... for that you have to free him at first from physical constraints.....(until his life ends)
ourselves are connected with the materialistic world in some way.....it does not always have to be a bad way.....

[Archimid]

No it won't tell you who you really are and what you really want but it wil surely fullfill your unfullfilled desires that are limited to experince you are craving for. it can't tell you what you want as what you want is always situation that arised from what are you living in and what you have learned in your whole journey called life till you reach point of that particular 'i want' desire. you really can't want some thing which is not known to you.

Interesting thought. I agree that we can not want an experience that we don't know about. But what about experiences that we learn about by using the rift. The rift will increase desire dramatically. Although it will satiate that desire for a while, but that becomes a cycle....

[Dilip]

those materialistic goodies were only an example to describe the situation of average Joe excluding me.

I gave materialistic example to suggest that AI with NANOBOTS in your brain can do nothing great other than what its programmed to. Specially like tell you "what we really want or who we really are"

besides no other purpose. I know they might give Extreme Super VR Experience by interacting wid your neurones, but my friend consider what is at stake or at what price?

What if that AI go ROGUE? or Some one or some corporation that manufactures them SPIKE those Nanobots in your brain overloading your brain and make you brain dead or even worst their psycho slaves..

For using anything like RIFT for enjoying in VR
and not Augmenting own self by allowing foreign object in place like brain I am fully convinced...

No it won't tell you who you really are and what you really want but it wil surely fullfill your unfullfilled desires that are limited to experince you are craving for. it can't tell you what you want as what you want is always situation that arised from what are you living in and what you have learned in your whole journey called life till you reach point of that particular 'i want' desire. you really can't want some thing which is not known to you.

Interesting thought. I agree that we can not want an experience that we don't know about. But what about experiences that we learn about by using the rift. The rift will increase desire dramatically. Although it will satiate that desire for a while, but that becomes a cycle....

That quote was actually in response to colocolo's post where he posted AI can tell you "who we really are and what we really want" by 'Nanobot brain interface' hacking your thought process by influencing neurones.

My take on this was that AI can only tell you what its program to and certainly can not tell "what really you want" as its something spontaneous and born out of your whole life passed till that moment
and to tell you who really you are is some thing only judged eveluating you entire life against set idial for all catagories after you seize being.

Of course with RIFT its different case as its not fusing AI in your neurones its just VR where you can remove the rift and thing is over where as you have nanobots in your head hacking your thought process by sparking your brain cells with some rough AI its different scenario.

Using rift for enjoying new experiences like simulating nascar or performing surgery or flying F-16 or cuddling Liara T'soni without putting your self or anyone else in danger is something amazingly exciting i too believe

Allowing technology like nanobots to alter natural function of my neurones to give me certain experience is way way too risky thing i would ever even consider to indulge in to.

[colocolo]

@ Dilip

with a AI that can understand your innerself i actually meant this:
you have nanobots in you auditory cortex that filter your innerself voice.( what actually has almost being accomplished in real life)
The AI wouldnt be in your brain in form of nanobots. No, you carry it around like a smartphone, its like a professor in the pocket. it receives the audio signals from you innervoice to interact with , nothing more.
So as a small child you would probably at first speak with your AI because your brain is growing.
i know that those nanobots can be dangerous, especially if they one day can fly around and capture your brain (like a controlled virus) making zombies out of us. Therefore we would need good nanobots that could smash them. .....medicine like we use today for viruses

EDIT: at first nanobots will be permitted in medicine, afterwards for paraplegic person. they will do experiments in virtual world and with exoskeletons. afterwards they will test it with non paraplegic persons....
oh my god..... scary......scary.... they will restore touch for paraplegics , again in VR and real life,..........
its so scary but humanity is heading into that direction. a week ago a i knew nothing about nanobots that could go into your brain via your capillares. I thought brain interface will never happen, unless you have Utopia and everyone is eager to let them drill holes into your skull.
but know i think very different. One MRI scan of your capillary system(or none), one syringe and auto calibration of nanobots searching for strongest signal quality all controlled with an external
electro-magnetic field. (sure it will be more difficult at the beginning)
This topic will be discussed more and more over time when VR arrives and nanobots.........blabla you know....
you are right, one should be very carful....

[colocolo]

turns out that there is also a solution to power consumption.
the smallest fuel cell that makes electricity of sugar in the body with the help of enzymes . 9:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHROy6fjT7o

[colocolo]

It's happening!

Graphene-based nano antennas may enable networks of tiny machines
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-graphene-b ... -tiny.html
Here an article about the work of Dr. Wang
http://www.gizmag.com/self-powered-wire ... ice/18970/

"Our project shows that the concept of graphene-based nano-antennas is feasible, especially when taking into account very accurate models of electron transport in graphene," said Akyildiz. "Many challenges remain open, but this is a first step toward creating advanced nanomachines with many applications in the biomedical, environmental, industrial and military fields."