See What You Think of THESE Screenshots! Can You Do Better?

Post by **Neil** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:46 am

Hello everyone!

I thought I'd get into the spirit of things and submit some screenshots of my own.

Fill up our advocacy and customer service forum pages, and I'll tell you the secret of how I did this - and how you can do it too.

All screenshots are in 1280 X 1024, and no, they aren't doctored!

Post by **Isei** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:06 pm

Hi~ No matter how I look at those FEAR screenshots my eyes can't see the gun in 3d, it's always separated.

Same in Star trek but with the ship.

Oblivion looks very nice but separation is very low, can't see much depth in the image.

My monitor probably makes things different since it's widescreen.. I wonder what my shots look like on a standard 4:3 display

Post by **Neil** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:16 pm

Hmmm(n). What resolution is your monitor?

When I get home, I'll update the pictures with 1024X768 resolution. That may help.

Neil

Post by **Isei** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:43 pm

I run the stereo viewer in 1280x1024, the stereo viewer does not have support for widescreen resolutions so 1280x1024 gets stretched to wide. I view stereo in 1680x1050, usually.

I tried to narrow the image (black bars on the sides) but the gun is still double.

I doubt 1024x768 screens will help in this case... Just too high convergence, maybe your eyes are better at seeing that stuff 8).

Post by **Neil** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:02 pm

Do other screenshots from other users look ok to you (Scarab for example)? Are they doing anything differently?

Can someone else post to confirm if the screenshots look ok?

Did I go too crazy with the convergence?

Neil

Post by **Isei** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:17 pm

Yeah all of scarabs pictures look okay, yours just have much higher convergence than theirs..

Post by **Neil** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:28 pm

Maybe it's because I found a way to do it where others could not....

I'll moderate the pictures a bit.

Neil

Post by **scarab** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:46 am

In my opinion the Oblivion screenshots are ok. maybe the separation should be a bit higher.
The convergence at the Fear is pictures is to extreme.
The convergence of Star Trek Legacy should be a little bit lower.

Post by **Capt Proton** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:04 am

Any chance of creating a step by step guide how you achieved the 3D effects for noobs? About the only thing that I can see good 3D on is the Nvidia test, which is spectacular. I may have a problem seeing 3D in general. The Medical Test is not real definitive for me. I can see some 3D effects, but not nearly as clearly as the test. I find the whole 3D aspect frustrating. I either have no 3D, or I can't get the laser sight on, or some other problem.

Post by **Neil** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:16 am

Ok - I updated the pictures.

I tested them on my other computer with LCD shutterglasses, they should look good.

I'm surprised you guys haven't connected the dots on the significance of this.

I'm going away for a few days, but I will try to check up on things while I'm away.

Regards,
Neil

Post by **LukePC1** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:08 pm

I think the screenshots are good or very good. They combine deepness with popout effect.
For me they work in Crosseyed view and with shutterglasses. Furthermore I don't have any problems with the gun in fear. I just need a splitt second to switch from the distance to the foreground, just like in real live.
Problems appear with the the sword in DM, because the screens are very dark and the weapon is hardly recognizable. It simply doesn't look much like a sword or fists.

Some Oblivion screens could do with a little more seperation for more deepnes, but everyone has his/her own preferances.

Luke

Post by **Znith** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:15 pm

Neil what vid card and drivers are you using? Just curious if these pics are from an 8800 because I didn't think you had one yet...

Post by **Freke1** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:50 pm

The new ones are GOOD.
Your Oblivion pics has a lot of "lighting effects" I don't have, and the water looks much better than my water (I did the water fix). Do You use HDR, AA, Bloom? How do You fix the water?

Post by **Isei** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:31 pm

Freke1 wrote:The new ones are GOOD.
Your Oblivion pics has a lot of "lighting effects" I don't have, and the water looks much better than my water (I did the water fix). Do You use HDR, AA, Bloom? How do You fix the water?

Clearly he's not using bDoImageSpaceEffects=0 in the oblivion config.

Instead he has set that to 1 and enabled stereo render target with Dragon 3d utility. He enabled HDR in oblivion and with stereo render target you can change the position of the post processing effects with the convergence buttons. Convergence has to be set to a specific value.. This is also why he couldn't "go crazy" on the convergence like he did with the other games.

Can't really get as much depth as when using bDoImageSpaceEffects=0.

Edit: OR what Znith said.

Post by **Znith** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:37 pm

Well if he's still using a GF 6 or 7 series then he's using the new 94.24 drivers for the HDR. Would have been sorta nice if he said that in original post.

Post by **Neil** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:44 pm

Hate to burst your bubble, but my work here has nothing to do with Dragon's utility.

Also, I could have gone crazy on the convergence if I wanted to - an earlier message remarked that I had originally set it too high.

All these baseless assumptions!

Neil

Post by **Znith** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:21 am

Ok I'm NOT trying to be rude here but why keep the 'secret' from your supporters? People are asking how you did this and we support and help test the drivers so why keep us in the dark?

Post by **Neil** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:26 am

Thank you for your feedback.

Participate in our advocacy section, and when we have enough activity, I will be true to my word and reveal the secret.

I'll get more screenshots up when I get home next week.

There are more announcements to come...

Neil

Post by **Isei** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:29 am

Oh, interesting! I'm at least able to get identical stereo effect as you have in Oblivion(With HDR) by using Dragon 3d tool.

Neil, I really think you have the wrong approach for making people post in the advocacy forum... People will post there if they are interested and if they want to post there. Keeping secrets just to make people post there is just silly.

Edit: After doing some testing I noticed I can't adjust the convergence like Neil has done in his pics, also I can't make the water look as good. Sorry I jumped to conclusions 8) Neil defo has some other technique. We will know soon enough..

Post by **Neil** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:45 am

Hi Isei,

I can't discuss everything right now. There is big stuff coming down the pipe (BIG STUFF!) and I'm not at liberty to reveal it yet.

I'm not trying to make people do anything they don't want to do. Your involvement in the advocacy section helps everyone, and I thought this would be a positive motivator - something to strive for. I didn't anticipate this response.

However, it's all good!

I am sensitive to our members' input. I have edited our news section to tone things down a bit.

Post your Oblivion screenshots - I'd be interested in seeing them. Go high on convergence. I will do the same with other games.

Regards,

Neil

Post by **Isei** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:10 pm

Neil wrote:Post your Oblivion screenshots - I'd be interested in seeing them. Go high on convergence.

Read my previous post.

Perhaps this was a better motivator for other members, my response was just a bit impulsive..

Can't wait to see what you have found

Post by **Neil** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:55 pm

Nothing to apologize for. Usually the first response is the honest one, and I can see how I came across the wrong way.

You are going to want a head start in the advocacy section though. When the big, big, big announcements are made, you are all going to be fighting for every edge you can get. You'll have one of those "Neil tried to tell us" moments.

I'll post more screenshots when I get home!

Neil

Post by **LukePC1** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:13 am

What if I made similar pictures with non Stereo mode? You could do it like in stereo Photography. Just take two screenshots from slightly different perspectives and adjust everything afterwards to get Popout effect AND deepnes?
This should work with all the candy on and should therefore look like the presented Shots.

The only thing is that it's very much work and no solution to driver problems, so I hope the images are based on a real inovation, which will enlighten our future in the 3rd Dimension!

Luke

edit : Posted this by mistake somewhere else sorry^^

Post by **Neil** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:35 pm

Just got in from out of town.

That would not work at all. A true stereo image is proportional. For example, the objects in the back are far apart, the objects in the middle are close together, and then the separation is far apart for items up close.

No tricks, I promise.

Neil

Post by **RAGEdemon** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:34 am

Good pictures of oblivion. Seperation is too high and convergence is too low imo, but I see why you have done that: if it was higher, the hud and weapon would not be on screen. even though the "scene" would be better.

You could try changing the FOV to 90 which is default for pretty much all FPS games (obv default is 75 for some reason), which would help a bit.

Well if you are not going to tell s how you did it, I am assuming you are being gagged by some NDA... so... is someone making a proper stereo driver? nVidia? someone else? Well, im sure you can tell us once someone un-hogties you

I am sure the second biggest question on all our minds is: What is the performance like compared to non-stereo?

Having HDR on is amazing but it isnt worth much if you will get 3fps in stereo

What about FSAA? Obv + S3D + HDR with FSAA

I am sure all will be answered in good time.
please priv me if anyone has a DeLorean with an integrated Flux Capacitor?