Virtuix Omni Kickstarting June 4th!!!

Post by **museumsteve** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 am

Mystify wrote:Will the omni fit in a normal car, or will you need a van/pickup truck to get it from the distribution centers

It'll fit in a car. It will more than likely come flat packed in sections.

Post by **colocolo** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:19 am

remosito wrote:Just saw Omni weights 50kg, so forget about the below....

Was thinking about those insane shipping costs to europe!

A DHL Package 120x60x60 and max weight 31.5kg from Germany to most of Europe costs ~60$.

Would it maybe be a cheaper alternative to send ALL european Omnis together to Hamburg via shipping container and distribute from there?

Both Houston and Hamburg are big ship ports....

that a great idea. Too bad it doesn't weigh 40 kg. Look at this. https://gls-group.eu/DE/en/parcelshops/ ... hop-prices

Post by **TheHolyChicken** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:28 am

Okta wrote:Man I got so close to pressing the button on the $249 DIY. But the AU postage wasn't up. Now Im left hope the viiwok is a viable option, or build from scratch.

Okta (from another thread) wrote:OK, now ive missed the Omni, how about some details/pics? If its as far along as you have said no one will be able to steal your ideas before you go to market.

You know there's a $300 DIY Omni tier still available (18 remaining), and AU postage is available, right? You've only missed out on a $50usd discount.

Post by **Okta** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:41 am

TheHolyChicken wrote:
Okta wrote:Man I got so close to pressing the button on the $249 DIY. But the AU postage wasn't up. Now Im left hope the viiwok is a viable option, or build from scratch.
Okta (from another thread) wrote:OK, now ive missed the Omni, how about some details/pics? If its as far along as you have said no one will be able to steal your ideas before you go to market.
You know there's a $300 DIY Omni tier still available (18 remaining), and AU postage is available, right? You've only missed out on a $50usd discount.

I was close for the $250, but wont cop the extra $50 regardless, I don't support these "early backer" tiers. Seems to me they could lose more backers who might have pledged at an averaged price rather than having missed out on the early spots. And the early spots are obviously still profitable, or they wouldn't be there.

Post by **Mystify** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:56 am

Okta wrote:I don't support these "early backer" tiers. Seems to me they could lose more backers who might have pledged at an averaged price rather than having missed out on the early spots. And the early spots are obviously still profitable, or they wouldn't be there.

I think the early spots are there to encourage people to back it quickly, generate initial momentum for the campaign, which in turn makes it look more successful, and hence people are more likely to back it and it will get more attention. selling a handful of units at cost could be more than worth it for the increased pledging it generates. Plus, the price difference between early bird and the normal price is more extreme than the difference between the full and your proposed averaged cost, so if someone can't afford the full price, it is more likely to entice them with the early-bird, esp. since it creates a sense of getting a good deal, rather than working with a flat price which doesn't seem like a bargain if its just averaged.
Plus, the averaged price may not be that much lower. You have a fixed number of early backers, and some unknown number of higher backers. To get the same revenue from the same number of backers, the price wouldn't be in the middle of the two prices, it would be much closer to the higher price. That price difference is likely to have a negligible impact on people's decisions, and loses all of the benefits of offering the early-bird. The early-bird model is also more successful if your campaign takes off, as all of the extra backers are giving full returns.

Post by **Norb** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:51 am

RoTaToR wrote:
rafal1 wrote:One thing that keeps my optimism away is a high noise level this treadmill generates. If you live in a flat for all by yourself, or you have a special room for it, like basement or garage that's perfect, but if you live with some other residents in a house, fg. you are renting a room, it's seems to be impossible to use it without annoying them everytime you are playing.
Jan states in the FAQ:
We have used the Omni many nights in an apartment, without any fear of neighbors’ complaints.
But some absolute measured data in dB(A) would be helpful.

My concern is similar but not so much noise level but vibration transfer. Walking won't be a problem, but I've wondered how the impact from running on the thing will transfer through the base into the floor (my neighbors ceiling). Even if they can't hear the thing, I don't want their dishes to rattle every time I jump. My tentative plan is to build a small platform with some vibration dampening material that the unit will sit on.

Really looking forward to this thing, can't wait till January.

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:48 pm

interesting stuff, check out the prior art for the Omni:

https://www.google.com/patents/US7470218

Seems to me the omni is unpatentable (adding the harness being a pretty obvious change to anyone skilled in the art).

Post by **JanVR** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:44 pm

Hi Blazespinnaker, I like your knowledge of intellectual property law. Patents are often frowned upon, but they are crucial to stimulate technological advancement.

The novel and non-obvious character of the Omni lies within our shoe design, shoe/platform interaction and our safety assembly.

Just patenting a slippery concave surface is nearly impossible. Patent US7470218 has experienced that difficulty. You can follow all correspondence between inventor and the US patent office - those records are public. The only way to get such a patent issued is by inserting narrowing descriptions in the claims, which make the patent weak. A subsequent, broader application for the same invention was rejected.

Rest assured that I did not take the giant risk of leaving my job and investing my life savings and time in these last 2 years without properly assessing any legal IP hurdles, and getting the appropriate legal help to do so

. Luckily, I enjoy legalese. It is actually quite similar to coding.

Post by **JanVR** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:48 pm

Most importantly, I want to thank everyone on our forum for the suggestions, input and encouragements in these last few months. Could not have done this without you all! Thanks for making this happen- we are still a bit dazzled and deeply humbled.

It's been a great ride, but the road is still long. Hope to keep getting great feedback, as always. Few online forums have the same caliber and intelligent minds as our forum.

Post by **shent1080** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:53 am

Well done Jan on the kickstarter, do you think at any point you will be shipping direct to other countries to avoid the high costs? I was all in on this project until i saw the shipping cost to the UK.

Cheers

Post by **mindless** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:25 am

Hi jan, I see that your kickstarter page says that the razer hydra is supported, but how does that work, if your spining around, yet the base station is stationary? doesn't it need to rotate in relation to you to work correctly? Is that what that $79 tray is for? but the description of that says it attaches to the legs, which implies it wont spin around. can you clarify a little on how that is supposed to work, thanks.

Post by **Falan** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:36 am

The video was outstanding on the kickstarter, I was dismissive of the product at first but it does look like its got a lot of potential especially with fitness. Great stuff, looks like its destroying its initial target too

Post by **blindboxes** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:42 am

JanVR: I would like you to address a few concerns so far (if you remembered me, I contacted you with regards to shipping to Malaysia with my real name). People have been asking this a lot.

1. Can your tracking device detect whether the user is moving backwards, seeing that the leg movement between moving backwards and foward is pretty similar?
2. What sort of sensors will you be using for detecting motion, in the consumer version?
3. Will the harness be crotch-smashing in the consumer version?

EDIT: Just to add with regards to shipping, if you can offer shipping alternatives to Virtuix, do it. I will be shipping via sea from China to Malaysia, and it will only cost me about ~US$80. It's even cheaper if there's at least three Malaysian backers, as the minimum volume is 0.5 cbm, and the Omni is 0.3 cbm.

Of course, it will be even cheaper if there's 100 Malaysian backers.. but one can dream.

Post by **DavidC** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:08 am

mentioned on the front page of BBc news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22807205

Post by **Trabbi** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:05 pm

blindboxes wrote: 1. Can your tracking device detect whether the user is moving backwards, seeing that the leg movement between moving backwards and foward is pretty similar?

I'm curious about this as well. If you walk backwards, don't you use the part with higher friction first?

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:22 pm

He has 7 months to resolve those issues. It's a little early to be worrying about it.

Post by **3dvison** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:21 pm

Trabbi wrote:
blindboxes wrote: 1. Can your tracking device detect whether the user is moving backwards, seeing that the leg movement between moving backwards and foward is pretty similar?
I'm curious about this as well. If you walk backwards, don't you use the part with higher friction first?

I have probably run thousands of miles backwards getting back on defence playing pick up basketball, and when I do it at top speed, I am up on my toes. So it can be done either toe or heel. So yes, something to be worked out.

Post by **blindboxes** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:47 am

blazespinnaker wrote:He has 7 months to resolve those issues. It's a little early to be worrying about it.

I just want the issues to be acknowledged exactly for that reason, so that he would resolve it. It would help him if he stated it, there would be more people confiding in the kickstarter because of it.

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:53 am

He's very well aware of it, I am sure. And we are all working on this problem. He's not the only one. By the time it is shipped, there will be a handful of solutions.

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:04 am

If you want to know what the BIGGEST problem is: how to make your oculus rift wireless.

Right now, if you're turning around in the Omni, you're going to end up constantly pulling your cord out of your computer when it wraps around you.

In my personal opinion, it's a huge show stopper because it really breaks immersion.

Post by **Mystify** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:10 am

blazespinnaker wrote:If you want to know what the BIGGEST problem is: how to make your oculus rift wireless.

Right now, if you're turning around in the Omni, you're going to end up constantly pulling your cord out of your computer when it wraps around you.

In my personal opinion, it's a huge show stopper because it really breaks immersion.

If JanVR is to be believed, you tend to turn equally in each direction, and hence it doesn't end up wrapping around you.

Post by **blindboxes** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:53 am

blazespinnaker wrote:If you want to know what the BIGGEST problem is: how to make your oculus rift wireless.

Right now, if you're turning around in the Omni, you're going to end up constantly pulling your cord out of your computer when it wraps around you.

In my personal opinion, it's a huge show stopper because it really breaks immersion.

It's very, very easy to make the Oculus Rift become wireless. All you need are some batteries, an LDO circuitry to bring down voltage, the Asus USB Host+wireless HDMI combo, Razer Hydra to your chest/head/back, and you're done.

This will all come with time. The consumer Rift will definitely be wireless. Razer Hydra 2 being wireless is something to be expected too (if they're wireless, then you can easily put them on the base station, albeit there's some coding required with FreePIE and some sensor fusion. Not exactly trivial for a non-programmer).

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:11 pm

If by easy you mean throw money at it, sure. Anything is easy when you pay megabux.

Your solution however will cost the same price as another omni base.

The best solution so far for this is to get longer cables and hang them down from above.

Post by **Okta** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:05 pm

blindboxes wrote:
blazespinnaker wrote:If you want to know what the BIGGEST problem is: how to make your oculus rift wireless.

Right now, if you're turning around in the Omni, you're going to end up constantly pulling your cord out of your computer when it wraps around you.

In my personal opinion, it's a huge show stopper because it really breaks immersion.
It's very, very easy to make the Oculus Rift become wireless. All you need are some batteries, an LDO circuitry to bring down voltage, the Asus USB Host+wireless HDMI combo, Razer Hydra to your chest/head/back, and you're done.

This will all come with time. The consumer Rift will definitely be wireless. Razer Hydra 2 being wireless is something to be expected too (if they're wireless, then you can easily put them on the base station, albeit there's some coding required with FreePIE and some sensor fusion. Not exactly trivial for a non-programmer).

I very much doubt that. I cant see them adding $2-300 and bulk onto the consumer rift.

Post by **blindboxes** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:24 pm

Okta wrote:
blindboxes wrote:
blazespinnaker wrote:If you want to know what the BIGGEST problem is: how to make your oculus rift wireless.

Right now, if you're turning around in the Omni, you're going to end up constantly pulling your cord out of your computer when it wraps around you.

In my personal opinion, it's a huge show stopper because it really breaks immersion.
It's very, very easy to make the Oculus Rift become wireless. All you need are some batteries, an LDO circuitry to bring down voltage, the Asus USB Host+wireless HDMI combo, Razer Hydra to your chest/head/back, and you're done.

This will all come with time. The consumer Rift will definitely be wireless. Razer Hydra 2 being wireless is something to be expected too (if they're wireless, then you can easily put them on the base station, albeit there's some coding required with FreePIE and some sensor fusion. Not exactly trivial for a non-programmer).
I very much doubt that. I cant see them adding $2-300 and bulk onto the consumer rift.

Funny, I saw Palmer being very optimistic about wireless Rift. He also said it's very easy and he can do it cheap. One year to prove you wrong.

Post by **Okta** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:30 pm

Well I certainly hope to be proven wrong then

Post by **shent1080** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:37 am

Where did you see that Palmer said wireless would definitely be on the consumer rift and that it was cheap and easy? cheers

Post by **colocolo** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:43 am

Okta wrote:
blindboxes wrote:
blazespinnaker wrote:If you want to know what the BIGGEST problem is: how to make your oculus rift wireless.

It's very, very easy to make the Oculus Rift become wireless. All you need are some batteries, an LDO circuitry to bring down voltage, the Asus USB Host+wireless HDMI combo, Razer Hydra to your chest/head/back, and you're done.

This will all come with time. The consumer Rift will definitely be wireless. Razer Hydra 2 being wireless is something to be expected too (if they're wireless, then you can easily put them on the base station, albeit there's some coding required with FreePIE and some sensor fusion. Not exactly trivial for a non-programmer).
I very much doubt that. I cant see them adding $2-300 and bulk onto the consumer rift.
Funny, I saw Palmer being very optimistic about wireless Rift. He also said it's very easy and he can do it cheap. One year to prove you wrong.

yes, i remember that video. it was at the GDC and yes he said that the hardware with very low latency is there, but i cant remember that he said that it would be cheap. But nevertheless he seemed to be optimistic.
i can imagine that the components aren't expensive as hell.

Post by **mickman** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:11 am

The Omni will be at E3 yes ?

Who knows... There could be a couple of updates made to the Omni already.

Perhaps we'll see an upgraded support belt or tethering system that allows 360 degree rotation.

I'd personally like to see cooling fans & a drink station... As I predict there's going to be an awful lot of unfit gamers playing the Omni... Maybe valve should release another TF2 icon similar to the Oculus hat... A glowing pair of shoes to signify the player is using the Omni. This would explain why every 30 seconds the player keeps stopping.

Now might be a good time have a little fun with an Omni user... As I can see so many funny scenarios

Post by **colocolo** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:07 am

mickman wrote:The Omni will be at E3 yes ?

Who knows... There could be a couple of updates made to the Omni already.

Perhaps we'll see an upgraded support belt or tethering system that allows 360 degree rotation.

I'd personally like to see cooling fans & a drink station... As I predict there's going to be an awful lot of unfit gamers playing the Omni... Maybe valve should release another TF2 icon similar to the Oculus hat... A glowing pair of shoes to signify the player is using the Omni. This would explain why every 30 seconds the player keeps stopping.

Now might be a good time have a little fun with an Omni user... As I can see so many funny scenarios

Thats true. Multiplayer on an Omni will be absolutely challenging. If i think of Crysis 3 massive movement orgies i already start sweating. And of course everyone wants to beat one another. Terrific....

Post by **JanVR** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:48 am

Hi all, thanks for all the great questions and suggestions.

Cable management is not that big an issue. If it were, we would be showing a clever structure above the user's head to avoid any tangling. But I have not focused on developing such a structure, because I have not experienced this as a pressing issue. See our demo videos on our website - I rarely if ever get tangled up in any cables. The cables are long enough. That said, no cables would certainly be better. But it's not a big issue.

Our software can recognize backwards walking, but walking backwards on the Omni is not an easy feat.

We are working on a tracking solution based on accelerometers / magnetometers. This is not a big problem to solve- accelerometer tracking is commonplace, and you can use off-the-shelf components. The Omni is stationary, which is a big advantage.

The support belt will certainly not be a "crotch crusher"; our current prototype is indeed not comfortable, but we are already adjusting this with traditional climber harness straps. This is easy to solve. We'll make sure the final belt is comfortable and easy to put on / off.

Hope this helps! Thanks all for the support!

Jan

Post by **blazespinnaker** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Cable management is not that big an issue. If it were, we would be showing a clever structure above the user's head to avoid any tangling. But I have not focused on developing such a structure, because I have not experienced this as a pressing issue. See our demo videos on our website - I rarely if ever get tangled up in any cables. The cables are long enough. That said, no cables would certainly be better. But it's not a big issue.

I'm experiencing the opposite of this. Any reasonable period of time in TF2 I will turn around several times as I run through the course / dodging / turning and firing.

For example, when you do a circular course around one of the buildings, you're only making left turns. After 4 turns (one circuit), you'll be turning more than 360 degrees.

I was constantly wrapping the cable around myself and pulling it out of my computer until I bought extensions and started hanging it down from the ceiling. Even still, the cables are getting twisted - hopefully they can stand up to the stress.

Can you not turn fully around when using the omni? I was assuming the support straps ran on a track which let you constantly turn in one direction if necessary. But now I'm wondering if that's the case.

Post by **3dvison** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:31 pm

Hi JanVR,
I was also assuming that 360deg. turning is supported with the Omni, but is it ?
Or will you have to tell me that old "when You ASSume" JOKE...LOL

Post by **tbriggs** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:24 pm

What is driving the weight limit? As a fatass engineer I'm wondering if it's fixable with a little elbow grease or if I'm going to have to pass on this.

Post by **lossofmercy** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:08 pm

What is the height of the omni when you put it away? I want to know if I can put it underneath my bed.

Post by **JanVR** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Yes, full 360 degrees. You are not tethered to the ring, so you can quickly turn and jump without constraints. To Blazespinnaker's point, you are correct, if you turn 360 degrees in the same direction, then the cables start to tangle. In games like HL2, however, that does not happen often. It depends on the game map.

The weight limit of the Omni is driven by how much the support structure can hold. This is 285lbs with a factor 2, which means that it could hold up to two times 285lbs, but the safety limit is 285lbs.

The height of the Omni when you put it away is about 20-25".

Best regards,
Jan

Post by **lossofmercy** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:21 am

Oof, 2 feet is pretty high! Going to be a tough call for me there. I am also worried that this might impact my knees badly (your running form seems to be landing your feet ahead of you plus you don't have any cushioning on the surface itself, unlike a treadmill), I have tendonitis on my right ankle and issues with my left knee, so this is a huge deal for me. Any idea how much pounding your feet are taking? Or is the harness taking a bunch of your load off?

Overall I am impressed on how you handled everything else, especially the shoes. I have extra flat feet and I am glad that you are accounting for special cases.

Post by **colocolo** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:14 am

yeah, i guess even very trained people could get knee problems.
At least the shoes should be jogging shoes.
I can't imagine that these moccasins are that comfortable for you knees and column.

Post by **TheHolyChicken** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:42 am

New videos from the LA roadshow:
Short "promo" version (3m45s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyLfCfmcW70
Full length version (1hr23m33s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CLKt2F8tk

Post by **NightlHlawk** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:52 am

Jan,

Really looking forward to this! Backed it, but didn't see or hear anything about this until the 5th or 6th so missed out on all the early bird reward tiers. =[ Girlfriend was a little worried when she found out, but I sold it to her as an exercise machine. hahaha

Anyways, I had a couple questions. If there was any more information regarding the rack, that would be great. Dimensions, how it's attached, does it rotate, etc? I'm more of an MMO player, so having a keyboard to type to others nearby is something I'd like if possible.

Also, are you planning on having a one-size-fits-most (adjustable) belt? I would gladly pay a little extra for a belt that can be adjusted for different body sizes instead of having to buy multiple sized belts.

Thanks! Congratulations on a successful kickstarter and a great product. Again, looking forward to finally getting mine!